There are plenty of other ways to win people over without games and bullshit. It feels unneccesary to treat people like shit when there are friendlier, easier, just as effective ways to interact with people. What I am saying is I dont agree with negs, false takeaway, NLP etc etc. I have used them myself in the past and they are very effective but they also seem to be a shelter for insecure guys who feel they need to play games to make people like them rather than being themselves as, due to previous life experiences they believe this will lead to rejection.

You are better off working on your inner game, conversation skills and social circle as working on these aspects will enable you to grow as a person and also decrease rejection.

Wow, i needed to get that off my chest. I hope my rant helps your game in some way.

Negs are for women who believe they are higher value than you and basically think they are the shit, also they are called backhanded compliments for a reason.

I don't feel that time constraints are mean???

Also NLP has nothing to do with being mean either.

Strange post, I think I know what you were getting at though. That rather than learning loads of routines etc you can be yourself and get good results.

If you work both styles together you will be unstoppable, false time constraints work and are helpful but aren't necessary (like most things you learn).

What brought on this rant? Feels like there is something between the lines

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I meant to say false takeaways. The negs are cruel, a lot of the other stuff (NLP etc) aren't neccesary.

The reason i decided to write this post is because i wasted so much time playing silly games when i first joined the game. When i chose to put those games behind me and go direct i had great results straight away. A lot of the games are pathetic (magic tricks etc) and misunderstood which leads to many non experienced PUA's acting very oddly in social situations when if they worked on themselves they would cut time getting good and more importantly have fun and decrease stress.

I know what your trying to say, but NLP is manipulative as people try to make out. It can be, yes, but only if you use it that way.
Manipulating people really isn't that hard, with or without PUA idea's.
Just do what you feel comfortable with and makes you happy in my opinion.

Hello,

I also think that being yourself is OK- in the end, who else can ya be? I think though that the ideas behind PU are pretty sound. I was hitting on a babe the other week and her friend came back from the W.C. and tore into me with a sarcastic line as her shield went way up and so a neg, said to the babe I was hitting on, jeez, how do you roll with her? would have been a means to be funny and not lose control but i didn't think of it till later.
Anyhow, i reckon that this stuff helps in general, because people like me anyway, get a bit nervous and can use a plan to come through it OK and in one piece till mastery kicks in.

when your confidence increases, bet ya can get away with more and more.

yes, i mean i think that users discretion is required. i mean in the middle of a club to be doing handwriting analysis could be seen as a bit weird and maybe some hot chics would think that you were making it up anyway,
common sense i think is your best yardstick.

Women like badboys. end of story.

There is no end of story about it. For a start she doesn't know that you are being bad by negging her etc. You can not treat people like shit and give off get a reputation as a bad boy. Anyway they like badboys cos they are strong and confident not because they are bad.

this is one of those things, the higher level think negs (and other strict things liek canned routines)are wrong and try to teach the newbies that, except they forget that through using those things the newbies develop their inner game and eventually abandon those techniques.

Saying "work on inner game" can't really help anyone. saying "treat girls like a bratty sister" helps them then and in the long run they do get the inner game through that.

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I feel like this post is partially on the right tract.... but its also quite misguided.

Negs when done properly are basically the same thing as teasing... people get in trouble when they dont do it properly... same thing can happen if you tease improperly... same thing different name one has a stigma and one does not.

I really fail to see how a false time constraint is cruel... what if you had a real time constraint, would it then be cruel to speak to a beautiful woman you saw across the room if you knew you only had a few moments?

NLP is a combination of many concepts that basically create a far more effective model for communication. Most word leaders speeches and interviews upon inspection contain LARGE amounts of NLP principals... I can think of one recent world leader whose speeches did not, that would be George W Bush... and I think we all know the criticism he recieved for his speaking abilities as compaired to his peers.


Now 'inner game' I fully agree with you is that way to go... the issue is how do build your inner game? Where this concept goes astray in my mind in this post is the way you talk about building inner game briefly leads me to believe that you see it as a process that happens over some time (weeks, months years) and if you see it that way then as Kristall said learning some of these 'false' frames is needed to foster the development... If conversely you believe that massive changes can be made in short amounts of time (minutes, hours, days) by starting all the way back at 'square one' then your right you dont need any 'false' frames... however the 'fast' method is based almost completely in NLP, so its kind of a catch 22... if NLP is believed to be one of those manipulative aspects.

Good post Butterfield. I agree. Although I would say a mild neg is okay. The rest as you correctly point out is unnecessary b.s.

yeah, i understand exactly where you're coming from, I, like many, had relied purely on material and routines and such, but once you learn the theory behind it, it's amazing. it definitely helps your social skills. it's not treating people like shit at all.

Dude women LOVE BAD BOYS! I know a guy ..used to be a coke dealer...went to jail for 7 years got out when he was 28...the guy is a player.. He messes around and screws the hottest girls!...He screwed this Lawyer hot as hell ...There is this hot ass Indian girl that he screwed and she has like two degrees..it pisses me off..I'm so jealous man. He get's all these ladies and when it comes down to it he is 32 years old now but looks 25 and screws girls like every weekend...like even fine ass 19 year old pussy. He wants to be a rapper ..the guy doesn't have much going for him but it doesn't matter because he did time in pen and used to be a coke dealer. I hang out with him time to time to learn a thing or two..all in all he is a pretty good looking guy and is cool to hang out with but doesn't have much going for him. I mean honestly the ideal job for this guy is be a porn star ha ha. But Yeah I've taken NLP classes and it used to help with communication and self help..you should read up more on it. NEGS are used when someone thinks they are better than you and you kind of subtly neg them in the right way to make them realize to get off their high horse. That kind of comes out naturally if you are a confident man. Like you don't take shit from people. Negging could also be used as teasing which isn't treating people like shit unless you do it too much or somebody takes it the wrong way. You should learn the theory behind this stuff it really is amazing and interesting.

bro negs, false takeaways, etc are used when a girl is bitchy. if she is "good" u reward that with attention. if she is a bitch you "punish" tht. u dont just use it on everyone.

I have to join this discussion even though I tried to stay out of it...

Man, negs, NLP false disqualifications, takeaways, freezeouts, routines, games etc etc. are NOT meant to treat people in a bad way.

Yes, if you consider "you are ugly and I hate you" a neg then you are right but that is not the point of negging. I am generally against negging because I seldom need to anymore. Kristallnachte is correct here, (Dude, you got the right attitude!) people tell you to skip routines and work on inner game and forget that they are needed in the development of your skills. Inner game comes with experience.

If you wanna make a statement and wanna make people treat each other better then a better suggestion is:

Calibrate, make sure you get the message across in a way that is not hurting the other person. Develop a feel for how hard to neg, is it necessary, can I do it in any other way?
Are you really interested and plan to treat the girl in a good way once you get her, if yes, then by all means, use all dirty tricks you got, a lifetime of happiness and she just have to stand 15 minutes of false disqualifications... No biggie!

Ezo