This is my first post, and a very long one - my gratitude if you read it all and better yet if you can help me with your insights. I'm very scared about my future, socially, because of a sticking point that's been around my whole life - having interesting, flowing, charismatic conversations with FAMILY, with ACQUAINTANCES, with FRIENDS, with COWORKERS, etc in person, over the phone, whatever. I don't think I'm a social outcast - but the sample conversations you'll read below are awkward and painful! I'll never be a cool, attractive, center-of-attention guy if I keep having crap conversations like this with EVERYONE in my life!

But here's what's REALLY scaring me - whereas most people who have conversation as their sticking point have something concrete they can do improve their conversational abilities, I've already exhausted most of those options, and yet the problem remains. That's a very scary thought - is there anywhere to go from here? I put myself in conversational situations often - I already have a profession that allows me to have 'professional' (though not 'social') conversations all the time, I volunteer, I play sports, I have a great education, and I have multiple groups of friends (albeit not the 'coolest' people around). I've read a few of the conversation and NLP materials in the community. My ability to speak isn't the problem - I have a deep, confident voice - with prepared material, I can and have delivered presentations and speeches in front of various-sized audiences, who typically are pleased with my delivery.

The problem is that I cannot have a sustained conversation that's flowing, interesting, and charismatic - and in rare cases when I do, I don't know why it happened and I don't know how to recreate that success. I'm an expert at having awkward conversations, or conversations that lose their momentum with lightning speed and precision. Keep in mind that the following sample conversation (where I run into an old college pal I haven't seen in a few months) isn't real and the words don't matter - but it's a close representation of the types of conversations I have in all areas of my life. The initial energy of the conversation and the rapid and repeated losses of momentum and ensuing awkwardness is spot on. I make sure I ask questions, *try* to get them to do the talking, seem laid back, etc - but read it and tell me if you don't cringe.

I always feel like the burden of keeping things interesting rests on me, which makes it stressful (just as an example, I try to turn things around by probing them for interesting things going on in their life, but it seems like the average person doesn't have much to say, so the burden comes back to me). Well, the average person actually does have much to say, because they have the kinds of conversations I want to be having, but with other people - so I know the problem is me! Sure, I can take the 'I don't care to be charismatic and impress you'-approach and not care, but then I'm not improving my skills towards being someone who can have captivating conversations. The conversation below isn't with the intention to do a pickup, but just to create a conversation that people don't want to end, whether they're a guy/girl, young/old, anything!


I could have cut it off at the first sign of awkwardness and left the conversation better off, but then all my conversations will only be 15 seconds in length. How horrible is it to be conversing like this with family, friends, coworkers, friends-of-friends, etc all the time?! If these conversations flowed better and with more charisma, these would be amazing opportunities every day to increase my confidence and social abilities, and others' impressions of me!

The help I'm looking for isn't specific to pickup conversations - for example, I wouldn't want to inject a 'DHV story' or, needless to say, magic trick/palm reading/equivalent into the above conversation just for the sake of filling up time - there's something I'm missing completely when it comes to just having a spontaneous, natural conversation.

The problem amplifies almost infinitely when it's with someone I've recently had a conversation with - one of my biggest fears within conversations is running into someone I've just recently had a conversation with. There's only so much you can use the 'safety questions', examples below, upon every interaction before people start to realize that you're a conversational robot using such questions to hide your inability to be a spontaneous, interesting conversationalist, like most of the cool guys I see around. (These cool guys are able to hold charismatic conversations with guys, girls, men, women, friends, acquaintances, young, old - and they do it with the same people week after week - and I'm in awe.)
- "How's work/school?"
- "What's exciting in your world?"
- "Did you check out the --- going on in town?"

Here's what the second conversation would look like if I ran into the above person again within a couple of weeks:


I'm sure you can feel the awkwardness of these conversations, and it should make you cringe - that's how I feel when participating in or remembering my conversations. This sort of thing happens with everyone in my life, with full certainty. It's truly ridiculous. I can't even call it poor by PU standards, I must call it poor by standards of all social interaction - I am amazed when I see people in similar situations, able to keep the conversation in full swing for as long as they want, no awkward moments, pointless silences - in CONTROL. And I'm not sure it's about the substance, because they're just 'shooting the shit' just like me and not really talking about anything deep or heavy. So what's different?!?

Please keep in mind I'm not *necessarily* talking about the type of conversations used in a pickup - at this point I'm just talking about ALL social interactions, whether it be with a beautiful girl or anyone else.

I have a feeling I need to do something wild and ridiculous like quit my profession and work in retail or as a restaurant waiter to learn how to have social conversations and not professional, boring conversations - but such extreme measures being my only resort really scares me, because of practical considerations. What can I try to fix this problem - I am fully serious when I say I'm willing to try anything - this is a priority for me. The main advice I've been getting is 'practice', and I'd sincerely love to but I've been doing that for years - I volunteer, I join clubs, I try to have conversations all over the place, but they're awkward - no improvement. In fact, all this practicing is making me even better at attaining the above crap conversations with ease. That's why I'm so AFRAID TO THE CORE about my social future.

Am I destined to converse with people like this forever, or is there hope that I can be 'that guy' who has spontaneous, captivating conversations everywhere he goes, with the same people or new people, on demand? Your honest insights will be greatly appreciated.

Hi,

I don't think that there is any magic wand formula. God knows I have bought just about every single motivational book on how to get instant confidence and how to pick up chicks just by saying the magic words and I think that everybody is stuck with who they are for better or worse. I am sure that the key is being happy with yourself, simply building up your self esteem. When my self esteem is high, I notice because everything socially is justso easy and if things don't go perfectly or if Im not Mr Confidence it doen't matter as much.

One thing is for sure, if you wait until everything is fully worked out and you are a perfect social artiste, or you are "much better" or "a great confident person" or "just like George Clooney, the chances are you are going to miss out on a lot of fun and hot chicks. Fuck it. Go out and have fun, AS YOU ARE, who gives a fuck!!!

From what i can see, people like Style, Mystery also had their problems and weren't born superstars they had to work at it until they worked out the moves.
I am still a newbie but there are a lot of things that give me confidence and faith.
and one of them is this forum.

Good luck!!!!!!

Hey man,

first I've got to say that my english is not that one of a native speaker.
I begann to be interested in this hole pick up thing a few weeks ago and got to know it by accident. So ending up here is quite a coincidence, and reading u're post even more. I'm studying sociology and it is I guess that kind of interesset, what brings me to think about your case and I don't know if it is possible for me to give u some kind of hint, that could help you.
But here are some of the thoughts about the situation you re in or the perspektive on it, that is yours.

thinking to mess something up, is the worst precondition for "success". Standin in front of an audience with u're material u not only feeling safe. There is not the e x p e c t a t i o n of failing. Expectations are what our, even our personal worlds are made of. Because whatt "really" happens is a question of how u put it - afterwards. Losing your job can be a catastrophy or the greatest chance of the last 5 years.
So you got to find a way to create an opportunity to make a cut, a break, some kind of cesura from where u can start over. it is your choice how radical u need it to be.

our job is, what gives us the possibility to pay our rent, buy food, spend the holidays someplace we (rather) like. in my case im doing what im doing because of fulfillment. this kind of fulfillment correspondes with my personal idea and need for passion. perhaps it could help you to have a relflexion on what is the thing, or the things (topics, activities and so on) that facinate you. talking about a particular matter, that both persons are in to is in most cases something, that can keep a dialoge alive. and even when your talking to somebody about such a thing, and your counterpart has not the slightest idea, when you do it in a passiante way... hope u're understandig, what I#m trying to say.

.. ok, its late and I'm getting ill.

so, here some lecture-tips:

Robert Musil - The man without qualities. (a very complicated, interesting just marvelous and full of wit-books, that may give u something so think about)

Michel Foucault - The history of sexuality.

Friedrich Nietzsche - Geneology of morals.

- I know, this is heavy stuff, but perhaps it will give u some new and refreshing perspectives on the world u live in, a clue of possible styles of thinking.

And dont forget:

It is your world, you belong to.

_________________
"In a world of multiple worlds the undramatic answer towards the collapse of one world is the contruction of another."

Hey TotallyRandom,

Let me just start off my saying that you seem to be a person who is ready for change. Change is a good thing, but i dont think your problem is needing to change, judging by the conversations you shared with us i would say that you might be trying a little too hard. It seemed to me that you were REALLY trying to keep the conversation alive. My advice would be to always try to leave her wanting more, wait untill the conversation reaches it peak (but before the decline) and excuse yourself, "Woops break times over! Better run" Leave her thinking "shit, wish you could have stayed longer" Make her the one that wants to see and speak to you!

Thats how it should be, What do you think? But with this girl in particular i would say just leave it, you've already gone down a road that is difficult to turn back from because believe me when i say this, if you could feel the awkwardness she can 100x More then you can, making her put up walls and barriers the next time you bump into each other.

Im from London myself and the girls round here get talked to and chatted to all the time a constent stream of guys always there when ever the girl wants them, but what ive found works well if differentiate yourself from the crowd! You have to make yourself unattainable to women, they will always want to share your company more if you make it a little bit of a chase.

Now im not saying be a dick, or anything like that but making her feel like she needs to chase you will always win over letting a conversation die then dragging out the awkwardness trying to perform CPR on it!

Make sure you go out on a conversational high with a girl you dont know that well and ALWAYS make it your choice to leave, leave her wanting more!

That would be my advice man, i hope it helps because believe me i have felt the pain of a conversational death and the awkwardness that comes with it and only in the past year or so have i learnt what i have just passed on to you.

Let me know what your thoughts are, feel free to PM me or reply

Later Peeps!