I've noticed some specific trends on this forum and with PUA's in general and they are things that I feel need to be adressed and compiled into one post. So here goes.





"rAFC" TENDENCIES


When kids just get into the game, they realize what they have been doing wrong ever since they were a wee lad, and OVERCOMPENSATE.

What am I referring to when I say "overcompensate"?

While their old AFC selves would...
-do every favor they could think of for an attractive girl
-have no sense of style and try to blend in to the best of their ability
-be a recluse and have a few similar-minded friends
-tell her nice things about herself to win her over
-never touch a girl
-be scared to talk to girls

their new AFC selves will...
-refuse to do any favor for a girl, no matter how earnest and simple her request may be because it is a "shit-test"
-still have no sense of style and "peacock" excessively, sometimes completely changing their image to one that is not congruent with their true personality
-force fake DHV stories in a part of the conversation that has nothing to do with what the story is about, so they can check DHV off their to-do list
-"neg" a girl in an insulting manner, either because they don't understand the proper use of a neg or because they want to make her wonder why this guy isn't trying to woo and please her like the others do
-force kino in a way that may be untimely and awkward
-seem overenthusiastic and even eccentric in conversation
.............. and ultimately come off as an egotistical, unrealistic, wanna-be asshole. (thus, once again, not getting the girl)


How do I know? I have witnessed it time and again on this forum and briefly lived some of it just after I discovered the community.


"Never go in excess, but let moderation be your guide."
-Cicero


The last point about seeming overenthusiastic and eccentric is the one I feel best suited for me to elaborate on, when applied to texting.






TEXT GAME

I know what some of you older guys are saying... Texting is pointless. It is sooo slooowwww and it is impossible to show emotion. Why not just call and condense a 2 hour conversation over text to a 10 minute phone call?
Yes, these are true and valid points, but texting has some great advantages:
-You can text more than 1 girl at a time.
-You can text at work or in school.
-There is no chance of an awkward silence.
-Texting lets you choose your words more carefully.
-You can dictate the pace at which the conversation is flowing.
-Because of the slower pace, there is sometimes the illusion that the two of you could just talk for hours.


However, in many cases, texting has an age limit. If you haven't noticed, basically all teenage girls do is text. Most of the time, the older the woman is, the less likely she is to prefer texting. Also, I strongly believe that texting is not appropriate for certain conversations. It is most suitable for light banter back and forth.



Now that I have laid out some of the benefits of texting, let me bring to light a problem that I see all the time on this forum. Honestly, does this thread not look familiar?




SUBJECT- "How Did I Do? Rate Me PLZZZ."


MESSAGE BODY-

"so I got the number of this HB10+++ who goes to my school we have talked sometimes and I texted her this one day and she went cold on me and she is pretty much a total bitch.
but ya I txted her first and here is our conversation

>>'Hey stop it'
'stop what?'
>>'Stop thinkin of me. '
'haha i'll try but it's just so hard'
>>' u kno what else is hard right now?'
'ewwww lol'
>>'No you pervert! I was talking about this wooden chair that I'm sitting in. '
'haha righttt'
>>'so what u doin right now?'
'not much. you?'
>>'about to go to the gym with a few buddies. GET HUGE!!!! my fitness is really important to me.'
'thats good'
>>'but until then, i'm gonna let you entertain me '
'wow i feel so priviledged..'
>>'you should... so do you got any plans this weekend?'
'uhh idk'
>>'good. because I'm all booked up except for sunday night and I have decided that we are going out for ice cream.'
'I don't think I can. sorry.'
>>'o c'mon. you can't resist me and you know it '
'ok w/e. look i can't go, I'm sorry.'
>>'Oh well i guess that stinks for you, then. You're going to be missing out bigtime...'
'I guess its my loss'
>>'ya... well i g2g. talk to ya later babe'
'um no not really'"





Everytime I read one of these I think, "WTF?? What kind of monster did we create here???" Quite a big one actually. We effectively turned a harmless housecat into a blinded, mutated hiena in a matter of months. But enough with the metaphor.
Here are some common themes that scream "weird":

-The Overuse of Smileys (or "emoticons")
Don't use tons of smileys. It's weird.
My rule of thumb: Only use smileys when you feel like something you are texting can be easily taken the wrong way. This shouldn't have to be used too often though.

-The Flurry of Punchlines
Your conversation SHOULD NOT BE ONE GIANT PUNCHLINE. It makes you sound rediculous. Put yourself in her shoes. She will think, "Why is this boy trying so hard, and where the hell does he get his crack-cocaine?" The conversation should be natural, and consist of a good mix of flirting and fluff.

-The Strange Openers
Are just another one of those punchlines. Maybe use them once in a blue moon. And what's so bad about "Hey girl, hows it goin?"

-"My fitness is really important to me." [and similar statements]
a) She doesn't care.
b) It sounds fake.
c) You don't need to tell her any of your core values. She will take on the challenge of finding out what makes you tick and will figure them out in time, but until then, remain mysterious.

-Overuse of "o c'mon. you can't resist me and you know it. " [and similar statements]
The first time, she will probably take it halfway as a joke and think it is funny. But overuse it, and she will think that you really believe this, which tells her that you feel the need to reassure yourself that she likes you, or that you are really conceited.





So, when texting or conversing in general and are considering going out on a limb, try putting yourself in her shoes and imagine what she would think if you said blah blah blah. And ask yourself, "What would a respected, socially smooth alpha male do?" Who knows, it may help.










**The text conversation I used was not in reference to any direct post, but rather from many I have seen while here. It was completely fabricated by me for use as an example. Just clearing this up ahead of time **





Hope this was beneficial,

white_knight

_________________
"Never allow someone to be your priority while you're just their option." - Unknown

nice thead white_night!

Also some people use routines or punchlines they read somewhere regardless the fase they are.

F.I. they might use a good qualification routine right after they opened or transitioned, so they just lose the girl right away as she is not yet attracted to them she wont let them qualify her (I 've seen it happen).

In my opinion it's not a bad thing though. Crash 'n Burn is the only way to conquer this stuff and understand the value of stages, natural game etc.

Totally agree.

I've realised that a lot of people who go OTT with pick-up, i.e taking peacocking to the extreme and treating everything like a shit-test, are really still insecure in themselves.

Finding the middle ground, and being able to fluff, and sometimes just being AFC is important too.

_________________
*Justice renders the WEAK his due*
My Journal
here-vp445642.html#445642

Yeah man learning PUA skills has turned me into a PICK UP ARSEHOLE.

I've definately been going over the top.

• I negged a girl who I had already previously attracted.
  
  I insulted my ex (who was a great friend) at a party, made her cry and now she doesn't talk to me.
  
  I act like i'm too good.
  
  I don't compliment girls anymore ever, rather I pick their faults.
  
  I make girls buy me drinks, I don't buy them ever.
  
  I do freeze outs and never talk to them again.
  
  I act like I don't give a shit about girls anymore, even though I still do.

This completely sucks, if only I had stuck with my natural game, I wouldn't be in this mess.

I'm officially a PICK UP ARSEHOLE.

Too much of anything is not a good for you. Yes, even sex.

I agree with the above being possible, that's why on this life journey, PUA'ing is just a branch of life. I constantly have to tell myself that no matter how deep I get into PUA'ing I should never lose sight of who I am (values that I hold dear) and who I long to be (values I obtain along the way) into making me a better person. More than leaving her better off, you want to leave the world better off as you grow in the journey of the life of a man.

At the core you want to meet an interesting woman, then just become more interesting and learn to communicate it to others. I believe that is my essence of being a PUA. Confidence and "higher value" then takes care of itself and soon you won't need routines/techniques anymore, you will just be.

Maybe this should be in the newbie section?!

_________________
The hotter they are, the harder they fall....for me.

Marvel, this perfectly sums up the way all PUA's should view pickup. I really couldn't have said it any better and this is exactly how I have learned the science to be at its most beneficial. PU is not a journey away from your old self, but rather a compliment of it. It is like a strand of DNA, where one half of the double helix is your true self and core values, and the other half is the acquired values that you have learned from PU and other life experiences. Both are needed to move higher.

But unfortunately, because the art of Pick-Up has taken a commercialized course, many of the PU "gurus" such as Mystery and Ross Jefferies have advocated that "Pick-Up is a life changing mindset. If you don't put 100% of yourself into my method, then don't even bother." This can be interpreted as "If you don't put 100% of yourself into my method, then I will lose sales and followers." And where has that gotten them? Sure, they found a sweet spot for getting girls into bed, but Mystery has been in and out of therapy plenty of times and has had a history of being suicidal. Ross Jefferies on the other hand is just plain creepy, and probably doesn't have any true friends. They are no role models in my book.



Antic, I'm sorry to hear about who you have become, because I was that person a couple years ago (but maybe slightly less extreme). Like YAN said, it is a crash-and-burn science, and all you can do is draw upon past experiences to make yourself a better person. But this was my intention for writing this piece; so maybe some wouldn't have to crash-and-burn so hard.
Anyway,
Good luck, man.

_________________
"Never allow someone to be your priority while you're just their option." - Unknown

Isn't this just, problems with taking MM to literally? Or understaing MM but not understanding women?

This is an excellent post. When I first started, I was like this. I came off as egotistical, and conceited. I've come a long way from this over the past few years and when I look back to how I used to act, I think about how stupid I was.

But it's not all bad. How can you ever know the limits if you never test them? By exploring and going over the top at first, I learned what's good and what's bad in "the game." I guess you can look at it as learning the hard way. It doesn't sound graceful, but if you approach it with an open mind, and realize and admit the mistakes you make, then you can turn your egocentric self into a learning tool.

A good way to know if you're going to far is if people call you arrogant. A REAL man isn't arrogant, he's confident. There's a big difference.

_________________
New to the forums, not the game.

dude, what i think about this is becaz people dont know when to stop C&F and start rapport building. it has been way too emphasized to "neg" the target. people always misunderstood neg as insult.

another thing i notice is people usually lack of comfort building, because that was what we all did when we were an AFC. so we try so hard to avoid rapport to happen and eventually becoming too arrogant.

A neg is a "serious" insult, thats the difference between teasing and negging.

I remember reading somewhere that failing is sometimes a good thing even after you've succeeded so many times before, because it keeps you humble and keeps you grounded.

I myself am glad that I didn't discover PUA at an early age, because I feel like, "with great power, comes great responsibility" and I would've abused that power to no end had I had it earlier (like say, highschool).

There is a maturation of man that some can only obtain after going through what they think is heaven and coming out realizing it's a little overrated.

I believe it is every "guru" or teacher or master pua or whatever's responsibly to convey their enlightenment to the younger generation in general including the younger PUA's of the world about the ultimate role and responsibility it takes to be...well....a man.

I believe Sean Messenger and Johnny Soporno are great examples if you will of parting knowledge of such....(I don't have the time right now to find the link, but the topic is something of the sort with "The Game is a lie" blog that is a great read.)

....here it is...

-the-game-is-a-lie-vt31425.html

_________________
The hotter they are, the harder they fall....for me.

What? No it's not.

A neg is a backhanded complement. Like, "You have a great personality! You remind me of my little brother!"

She'll be saying, "aww, thanks!" but she'll be thinking, "little brother? wtf?" That's the reaction you want - not outright horror when you say her nose is too big...

_________________
"A man is but the product of his thoughts, what he thinks, he becomes." - Mohandas Gandhi

the neg is, as described by mystery its creator, either a disqualification, or a forced dlv upon the subject. so basically, either you show disinterest to not be taken as a suitor, or you lower a girl's self esteem purposely so that she qualifies herself to you, et cetera. those are the two definitions for the neg.

personally, I think that the neg is shallow. why hide my intentions? why make the girl feel bad about herself? on the one hand it is unnecessary, on the other, it is immoral.

--- Snatch

The neg has the exact same result on her self esteem as an all out insult, (women will read into things, as you do when a hot girl says something ambigious to you)

It's an insult that is delivered so you can't be called out on. A neg doesn't need to be a backhanded compliment.

You can neg a girl by answering your phone mid set and blanking her out. She can't call you on it, but she gets the message "You're not attractive enough to hold my attention"

A backhanded compliment is just the wrapping put on it by the MM companies to sell it better when on tv shows. Everyone with any social experience will know that it's an insult, it's simply concealed so it's covert rather than overt, and to openly confront you on it would seem rediculous.

EDIT: some thoughts on the O.P.

Strange openers, by that I think you mean opinion openers. The opinion opener is new and exciting and it ties you into the set alot better, and two take example a moving set in day game, unless you go direct, a situational opener isn't really going to work out that well.

I use smileys alot, to be honest I find it dynamic and fun, I see no reason for it to look wierd, some poeple I know use smilies alot, others not so much, it's a personnal thing. I would be concerned if someone changed the amount smilies they used in order to fit this category for a "cool guy".

However your point on punch lines is spot on, it gets wierd if the other guy is refusing to stop using C+F and stolen comedian material, eventually the jokes need stop and the sexy/normalness has to begin.

This is a great post.

Loved the breakdown of the text example. Will definitely keep these things in mind.