A quick and simple question:

In your opinion is pick up an art or a science???

_________________
Learn the principle, abide by the principle, and dissolve the principle. In short, enter a mold without being caged in it. Obey the principle without being bound by it. LEARN, MASTER AND ACHIEVE!!!

Maybe a bit of both. Obviously it's somewhat of an art, because the term is Pick-up "Artist." However, there are so many tried-and-true formulas involved, that it can't help from being seen as a science. Kind of like music. People of who music are considered artists, but there's Music Theory to learn, chords, or even the process of making an instrument.


Thats my take anyway.

I see it as an art cause not everything is in concrete.

pick up is pick up... the rest is pointless...

same as is culinary "arts" although art is in the name, it hold true to just as much science as art... including chemical properties of variant foods and their chemical effect on our bodies via the study of nutrition...

from the other perspective, there may not be much "art" to flipping burgers, but there are shows and competitions world-wide based upon food appearance alone, hell I even saw this show on the food network one time of constructing cakes in a fashion to model third-party subjects (buildings, themes, animals)

Science or Art, the point of food is to eat it.

the point of pickup is to seduce... the rest is crap, by the time you would have decided if it belongs to the arts or the sciences, she would have already been through me (Or better worded, me thru her...) countless times

Depends on the pupil. Some guys need to break it down to a science. For some it flows like an art. I would say that mastery transcends science and ends up in artistry. Early game, science tho.

_________________
Make Moves

Swoop

It's a mix, it is based in science, and it can be very pragmatical in it's nature, but as time goes on everyone develops their own twist. That is when the person is a pick up artist rather than a pick up practitioner.

You can paint a scientifically accurate tree. MM.

Or you can paint something new and thought provoking. A personal "style".

I think that pickup appears to be different things at different levels. Your progression may cause it to look something like this:

Luck-> Science-> Art-> Feel


The luck phase is the AFC phase... you don't know how or why it works and therefore may assume that these men are simply 'getting lucky'.

Science phase takes people from AFC and can go clear through mastery... I would say that 95% of people will arrive here and never leave this phase... Most obvious examples of this are heavily systematic and linear methods such as MM, least obvious would be 'Natural game' methods... basically as long as your using a 'method' even if its your own you are viewing PU as basically science.

Art I would say happens when you have successfully lost structure... not structurally removed structure like many people try to do... but just let it go... at this point things should flow from you without having to think about them... everything is internalized and it's in there for reference but we dont have to consciously think of anything... or to consciously calibrate.

The final stage I would say the very few people will ever arrive at... it takes the freely flowing art and takes it a step further... this is the stage where you 'just know'... its difficult to explain exactly... but picture precalibrating... but without thinking about it... you simply know is the best way to put it... you know how things will happen, you know how she will react... you just know. I would also add there is no need for conscious thought at this point... Picture a great chess master playing against 10's or sometimes hundreds of opponents at once... he see's and knows. Or a better example may be a very expert poker player... someone the like of Daniel Negraneu (his famous for his reads at least) he and many athletes have described this very phenomena with those 3 little words.... "I just know"

In my view Science and Art seem to be two sides of the same coin.

Science, in that you can replicate experiments, and get consistent results to support a thesis or theory.
Art in that it may be perfected to a level in which it doesn't seem rigid, but flows beautifully and that it becomes a product of creativity.

Da Vinci.
Artist or Scientist.



Often it seems hard to separate those two terms because they seem to rely so much upon one another.

Any Science may be perfected to an Art form.
And So may also Art be guided by scientific thought (like Anatomy and theory about Light, Perspective, etc.).


I'll have to stick with both, and neither, depending on how you look at things.
Pick Up may be modeled as both art and science and neither of the two.


Good Question, btw.
I really like the fact that you raised it.

It's a good question, to be sure, but I don't think it matters really except if your perception of what it is that you're doing colours how you do it to extensively. So to speak.

As for art or science? It's amazing how often those two traits coincide.

_________________
"Plan only what you must and live for the present - for tomorrow everything could change." - Personal Motto.

scientifically speaking, its not a science because the income of the method can't be measuread at all, you take the scopus of all people using it and you'll see one million variables hehehe

to me its very clear its an art, from another perspective, what may best describe it other than art, its a method, like there's scientific method..etc.. etc

In my opinion it is an art, you have to be a talent at this to be able to succeed, but there is a science behind it but not a solid science as the game changes daily.

my take

Pickup is a beautiful art and each neg is like a stroke of a paintbrush

Just think of a musician. He is a music artist. Music is an art. Like Superunknown said, he must learn technical details such as chords and music theory; it's much like learning a "science" of how to make shit sound good to the human ear.

A PUA learns some technical shit like background science on evolutionary psychology and stuff like that, but, like the musician, his ultimate destination is a place where he can fully express himself in order to share his emotions (in pickup's case, arousal) and to elicit specific responses. It is an art because the emphasis is placed on the expression and how effective it is. It is not so much a science itself because our practices in this community don't exactly follow the empirical standards of the rest of the scientific community.

Science and art, however, are normally difficult to distinguish between one another in the first place, anyway. If you look up definitions for art, it'll be hard to differentiate it from how anyone could define science. The best differentiation that anyone could probably come up with is that art is more "emotional" and that science is more "logical."

Pickup pretty much looks at emotion in a logical sense, but here's something I can offer to clear some confusion:

Newbies who are learning pickup usually make the mistake of over-thinking emotions and therefore limit their own emotional expression when they're sarging. They are trying to be scientists, but it just doesn't fucking work. An artist, however, stays in the moment with his expression and FEELS. He's defining what it's like to be human through his emotions. The "PUA" who tries to be a scientist fails, and the PUA who actually becomes an artist succeeds.

Pickup is an art.

The human factor excludes it from being a science. There is no way to break down the complexity of the human behavior into scientific laws. Yeah we have principles and theories, but they don't work for everyone every time.

so if you want to get all technical...it technically can't be a science.

defenatly a bit of bolth i mean science cause you now the basics are all the same an everything is science an imean everything

lol then art because your comin off of nothin to create a bond with her by using th tech you have\

idk

bro its art, in my opinion atleast, and a little bit of science, which im terrible at btw, and my game is pretty decent Dude, pua is not that different from like kickboxing, everybody learns it the sameway, but what makes them different is how good you use it. So I'd say its more of an art then science