You miss the point of joke advice

_________________
Every Saint has a Past, Every Sinner has a Future

Watermelon, I don't really like to pick on people, but you are giving some terrible advice, and I feel the need to make this point. If your idea of being alpha is not caring about ethics or morals, you can have fun being "alpha" in prison. This is not where I was planning on going with this post, but since I'm on the topic, why not. Being the alpha male means you are the leader of the group. If you act like a moron who doesn't give a shit about ethics, you are going to cause the destruction of the group. The people you are leading, out of self-preservation, will effectively "demote" you from your alpha male status.

But back to the OP. I do not think it makes you beta to not fight. If you handle the situation without violence, I believe it makes you more alpha. For example, look at the non-violence civil rights leaders like MLK. If the alpha male is the leader of the group, then MLK would be the alpha male of the civil rights movement. The man's entire principals were based on non-violence. That leads me to believe that if you can handle a situation without resorting to violence, you earn a lot more respect, and in turn, become more alpha.

On a side note, from a legal stand point, if you agree to the fight, it does not matter who throws the first punch, your are not defending yourself, you are fighting. If you make it clear that you do not wish to fight, and the other person throws the first punch, then you are entitled to defend yourself. So keep that in mind.

Fog.

Although your stance is commendable, and what you say about fighting and alphaness holds some truth... ....here's a quick reality check for you.

1. The only time where I was in a "self defence" situation where I let the other guy hit first, I escaped with a bruised jaw a cut under my left eye and a lump on the back of my head. I was in tatters, I've been in a number of other situations, where I have hit first and I have escaped without even coming close to the beating I took that day.

Statistically if you throw the first hit your chances of "winning/escaping" DRASTICALLY improve.

2. Self defence is a bullshit term, and any instructor worth their stars will tell you that. Self defence does not exhist, it's just fighting ineffectively. The only real reason why the phrase "self defence" was used by the martial arts was that it's better to say learn "self defence" than learn "how to fight", if you want people to join, fighting in itself serves a purpose, and that is to be violent, saying you have the right to self defence is like telling a basketball player he can play basketball, but he is only allowed to use his left hand and he is not allowed to dribble.

As soon as you start thinking about "self defence" you just strap a bunch of limitations on yourself.

3. The law (at least in the uk) when regarding self defence, is fucking awful, it defends the assailent more than the defender. If your serious about getting through an attack in one peice, just leave the law out of it. If some idiot is shouting at you and pushing you around, and your first thought is "at what point is it legal to respond"..... ...you've probably already lost.

Plus a friend of mine who is in the force has confessed to me, and as I've experienced, if you get in that situation like that, and leave reasonably promptly after the inciddent has taken place, the police rarely have the "means" to figure out where you went, let alone catch up with you.

4. Their is a correlation between non violence and great leaders, but these are modern leaders, compare them to Caesar, gengis khan etc Their ethics may not me contemporary, but they were fantastic leaders.

Avoiding violence by good negotiation skills is an alpha trait, not participating in violence is often a different matter.

Way I see it fighting is a tool, it's how it is used that defines the charecter behind it.

On a side note fighting can be attractive, with regards to "defender of lovd ones" etc. It's a very primal way of demonstrating alphaness, bravery, skill etc.

However agreeing to a "fist fight" in which you have to say yes or no too is ridiculous.

If you can say no then say no.

Just be aware of the situations where the other guy isn't looking for a "gentleman-like fist-fight" and has no intention of taking "no" for an answer.

There is no such thing. In order for the guy to answer "no" or "yes", you have to be asking a "question".

No vagina is worth getting your ribs broken and half your teeth lost. Keep asking those "questions" and sooner or later, you'll run into the wrong guy.

I've known Olympic medalists in judo and wrestling who've been sent to hospitals because they've habitually asked those very "questions" . . . and why not? 99% of the time, the other guy answers, ". . . . " and that other guy get tossed head first into pavement. But that 1% can be a very painful, life altering experience.

Guys, there is NOTHING wrong with being beta . . . or in fact, omega every once in a while. "YES! I am a faggot with no balls. Bye bye and have a good night!" - now, was that so hard? Take it easy . . .

I do agree that the law is quite a load of shit when it comes to self defense. That is why I said from a legal stand point. But for the sake of argument, I will go into detail on what I meant.

First, by agreeing to a fight, I mean when you have the choice to walk away or fight. If you choose to fight, you are obviously agreeing to the fight. When you do not have the choice, it is then in self defense. For example, if you cornered by a group of guys. The only way out is to fight. In that situation, by all means never hesitate. Hit first. Hit fast. Hit hard. As a practitioner of martial arts, I do believe the ability to fight is a great tool to have.

I fully agree with all your stand points, so I don't really have anything else to add, except maybe in regards to the great leaders of old. They used violence in a "constructive" way, for lake of a better word. My reference to non-violence leaders was simply to show the "alphaness" of being able to solve a situation without resorting to violence.

I still like my method best. Whoever can hit the hardest is the person who is going to be most dominnant. No matter how big and strong a guy is i will always be able to hit harder, because i will befriend other guys and 4 people stronger than any 1.....
Social status became greater than physical power because no matter how strong an individual is a group will always be able to accomplish more, the man who can bring together a group is always more alpha than the man who tries to do it alone.

Kasabi, the O.P. was tlaking about "backing down".

If your talking about backing down it implies that some other guy has issued "a challenge".

We were talking about HIM asking the question. Not the other way around.

So in that I can agree with you kasabi, asking do you want to come outside and fight, is stupid.

You immediatly escalate the situation, and lose almost any chances you may of had of a surprise attack. Not to mention "asking" for a fight in itself is a pretty stupid thing to do regardless of the advantages you give up in the process of "asking".

Fog... looks like we are on even ground now

There's really no difference. A bunch of thugs talk back and forth, shove, then fight. Hurray . . . who gets the "alpha" belt? The winner! Whoo. . . .

You have a professional life. You have an education. You have a ton of friends. You have game. Now you have to make yourself look "alpha" through a bar room boxing match with some low life? And for what? Some vagina meat? . . . Especially when you know that you can just walk out and hit up another club/bar and have a blast picking up women?

This is idiocy.

Don't fight . . . PERIOD. Go ahead and call yourself a "needle dick" and go home. Have people laugh at you. Ha ha ha . . . This is merely one day and one situation. Whether you fight or don't fight, you wake up the next day and you're still the guy with game and a life. The low life thug is still the low life thug . . . but you might realize these facts with a fake set of teeth and broken limbs. No reasons at all for this.

How often do these "situations" occur anyhow? Why is it that guys who fight ALL the time say the same thing, "That fucker started it!!"

not to mention, in a lot of street fights there's really no winner cause probably both guys are drunk and are not boxers
so both can hardly hit each other, both get messed up, and no lady will want to hang with you with your eye and nose swollen, then say "Ive been in a fight" she'll just look at how ridiculous you look and are for picking an stupid drunken fight for no reason... it'll probably scream "imature!" from your face and, guess what, imaturity is not alpha nor attractive to any lady, thats the point

watermelon probably thinks 50 cent is cool, or is still mirrorring on the 'alpha school boy'
even then, the guy that was alpha in a more mature way was way more admired by the girls, by that I mean the guy who holds his ground like a men, imposing respect but still avoiding the fight
when the challenger is so pathetic/"alpha" that he still tries do DRAG YOU DOWN to his level the true alpha just walk away and ignore
and if the dude is still so ridicously retarded that he can't accept your superiority(thus his inferiority) and still tries to run up on you the true alpha just throw 2 blows and the guy is down, because his alphaness won the fight
the guy is out of his mind by this time and alpha kept his cool, he can act and react clearly while the enemy doesn't

conclusion: your idea of alpha men is just some imature disturbed douchebag who thinks hes alpha and it's nothing against someone who is trully alpha

theres the secret

[topic closed]


just kidding

I don't find it attractive that a guy can bash a guys skull in with his fist. There are only a few times that fighting can be DHV, and in those instances, it isn't the actual fighting that is attractive, it is the reason why he is fighting. Protecting others and defending CORE values can be seen as legit reasons to fight.

However, I would argue that NOT fighting is generally seen as higher value. It shows that you are a man that is incontrol of his actions, feelings, and emotions. Remember that when you get in a heated situation, emotions and urges feel natural to you because you are in an elevated state....so fighting seems logical. But others are watching you, and they are not in that elevated state and will perceive your actions differently.

You also have to learn to just be the bigger man. For instance, you are in a crowded bar and bump into a guy spilling his drink all over him and on his lady. Someone bumped into you but that doesn't change the fact that you spilled his drink and they are covered in beer. He gets outraged and starts flipping out on you. What do you do?? Play it cool! People around you will see this situation, and they will see it rationally because they are not involved in it themselves. So even though the guy is being a total douche, calling you names and disrespecting you, just say, "sorry man, it was an accident, let me buy you and your girl a new drink." There is NO need to get aggressive back (physically or verbally). Getting aggressive will get you nowhere, it just shows that you get easily bothered by others opinions of you which shows insecurity.

If it's pushing and shoving their are two options here, he is genuinly riled, in which case he can be pacified. So pacifie him.

He is not riled, he wants to fight and uses his faked anger to close the gap on you. When this seems to be the situation, it's best to go pre-emptive. Becuase, here's the line kasabi, HE DOESN'T WANT TO BE PACIFIED, all the agreeing with him and saying sorry and self degrading in the world, will not change the fact that he wants to fight.

Not sure if it happens in the U.S., but it's been happening in the uk for ages.

And to be perfectly clear the "ego fight" is only one type of confrontation where violence is an option.

The difference in motivation, the first is anger, the second is a want to entertainment.

I don't like the concept of fighting for building attraction, it's needlessly risky, but fighting shouldn't be seen as a "claim the alpha belt" situation, it's get it over with and be in one peice.

If you have the option to back down then use it, risking your neck for a little ego boost is not worth it. Just be careful, their are situations where "low life thugs" like to take advantage of this peace making instinct within people.

Bon seems to have hit what I was trying to say on the head (Y)

Fin,

In a round about way, you're still saying, "He fucking started it."

You know the low-lives that troll the bars looking to fight. (Usually, fighting is their only asset) Why even bother going near them? Can't pick em' out psychically? The moment you go, "What's up?" . . . you know it . . . you know it, they know it . . . everybody knows it.

All this, "move first, don't think defense . . . jump the guy . . . " LOL . . . (If you know the guy is a 190lb. Olympic champ, you would BACK THE FUCK DOWN the moment you say, "what's up". You wouldn't even go near any conversation topic that could in any way lead to a physical escalation. You've got "verbal game". . . Are you saying that you are incapable of leading a verbal conversation AWAY from a fight? . . . You wouldn't even go near it.

The only reason you "move first or pounce the guy in someway" is because you know:

1. You think you have a decent chance of causing more pain than receiving.
2. You have a social excuse, "He fucking started it."

This is really such a waste of time. . .

If what you're saying is a guy shows up, with absolutely no reason . . . begins pouncing on you, then you gotta put up your fists. Perhaps this is a UK phenomenon. I've been around . . . I personally have never seen this.

I mentioned a beating I took a while ago, I was about 16 and I was approached when walking home... A guy about the same age as me was playing football, with his mates; the ball was kicked in my direction. I went to do the normal thing to kick the ball back, when I did, the guy ignored the ball and continiued walking towards me, (in hindisght I know that the ball was just a ploy to allow him to get close).

"Oi, my mate said that you called me a wanker"

me *walking away at this point*: "No I didn't I don't really know you"

*he catches up with me and turns me to face him*

"Are you calling my mate I liar."

"No I didn't, thier must be a misunderstanding"

"Aye ye fuckin did!!!"

I was scared, I tried every tactic under the sun to appease him, I was getting shoved, eventually while I was trying to explain to him that I didn't know him and that this was all a mistake, I got punched in the jaw, and the blows kept coming, after shoving him and hitting him back I made a run for it.

After asking around and experiencing this again, (thankfully I spotted it, and outnumbered 4:1 I just ran rather than bother with fighting) I've found that this isn't that uncommon in the uk, and it's been going on for a good while.

Apparently, a good part of the entertainment involved in this spectacle is watching someone try and talk their way out of the situation, completedly oblivious that they are going to be in a violent situation, whether they like it or not.

Chances are if they ARE low life thugs, they don't intend to give you the option of backing down, and they probably won't give any specefic warning as to when they will start hitting you.

Social skills go further than women, similarly too WW2, their came a point where we had to realise that nazi germany had no intention to be "appeased"

I have my own personnal rules now to help discern between a guy with legitimate problems, who I can communicate with and help sort out, and someone who is using whats now reffered to as, "the pre-planned ego fight". Who cannot be calmed down, becuase he was never really that angry in the first place.

I never said, I can't lead a sitation away from a fight, I've done that more than once, I am saying that if someone has the intention to deck you, thats their intention, and all the "game" in the world ain't going to stop that. Probably the number 1 tool that people need to know in a "Self defence situation" Is at what point communication has gone obsolete.

Ignoring "verbal game" will end you up in far too many fights, relying on it when your smacked in the jaw, is just as silly.

A fight/attack may need more than one person, that doesn't mean that all parties are consenting.

I had this discussion with some girls I used to work with, young and old. Basically, they said that fighting isn't attractive at all in most situations. The only time fighting is good is when its over them i.e. some guy is grabbing them etc.

They actually named a situation when one of them was out on a date in a bar and the guy she was with started beating the shit out of some guy cause he was looking at her. She immediately left and dumped him.


Choose your battles wisely.

_________________
ʎɐqǝ uo pɹɐoqʎǝʞ ɐ ʎnq ı ǝɯıʇ ʇsɐן ǝɥʇ sı sıɥʇ

I think Kasabi and Bonita have this case closed.