Thats very interesting, i can understand why it would happen. But again, i would guess their body language/ voice tone etc would be good and therefore nothing that couldnt be learnt.

Madals

[/quote]

Your first point.

3 ways to have cash, play the stockmarket, inheritance, win the lottery.

Secondly as hobbit above said, business is about identifying motives and occasionally motivating, that doesn't mena through charm, that often means disciplinary action and pay raises. Thats the majority of people skills in business.

Someone wants something, you want something and you supply it so they give you what you want. Business is built on greed, some busioness people are genuinly nice (I've worked for one of them) unfortunatly they often fail far more often than the ruthless and the backstabbing business people (again I've met them and I'm currently negotiating with one)

How about Alan Sugar? He's an incredible business man, yet he has a terrible reputation for shouting and acting aggresssive towards his employee's and potential partners.

Business people know how to work the market, and they know how to work people (key word WORK, it's manipulation rather than charm).

Your second point, spell it out to me... I'm calling you! Play your hand.

To quote the great psychologist Abraham Maslow he said that in life human beings have three essential needs, needed to continue on living out our full potential. And I agree- take away or damage any of the three and it will affect the others

HEALTH
WEALTH
LOVE AND RELATIONSHIPS

Applied to PUA, ignoring or saying the above doesn't count will give false hope to less elgiable males.
Saying "Genetic Looks" doesnt matter is a myth. Women can decipher a mans genetic makeup within 30 seconds.
Now Im lucky as I can get at least 20 seperate (many sexual) IOIs from females well before I even open my mouth- in fact Im regularly touched on the bicep by 90% females when in conversation and women (non related and from different circles) have verbalised on many occasions my attractive physical features, eyes, face, body etc.
However some guys in seminars are just plain ugly and it doesnt matter how you dress them up women will see through that.
I mean a Skoda is still a Skoda no matter how many Alloy Wheels, Exhaust Pipes to make the engine sound bigger, neons lights or amped up sub system is going to fool a women into thinkings its a Porshue.

Wealth- again women can "sense" a wealthy man and since aged 12 has build up internal instincts to weed out pretenders, lyers and decievers hell bent on fooling women into bed.
I've done well in my life with jobs, skills and academic- but I will admit some females who I was gaming in a top london nightclub- were less than pleased with the fact I dont have a "career" per se and they admitted I need some by age 30 years old (around the maximum age women want to have kids whilst within their youthful life cycle).
These women were no gold diggers, were friendly,danced with me BUT when I mentioned this to a Top 5 PUA- he avoided the qustion BUT levelled with me at a later date that yes "Social Economics" exist with high quality women.
I think PUA companies should stop this "money doesnt count" chorus and start including sections on a "Wealth Building" plan whilst admitting there is leagues a certain high class women "require" a man with equal or greater wealth.

As for relationships- you have to remember they do include "jealousy" (On the girls part ) Multiple Long Term Realtionships with attractive females (which is a thread in itself- but essential for pre-selection) and the like.
Women say I am emotionally healthy, I am sex worthy whilst being eligable and Im definately going to keep you all updated BUT
PUA is only 1/10 of of my "relationships" which in itself is only 1/3 of my life overall.

Looks certainly do help. But how many guys out there have the looks or physical attractiveness of a guy like Tom Cruse or George Clooney? Not many. Most guys are average physically.

Wealth is not all about money. It is also about how successful you are in your life and what you have done and what rewards you gotten because of it. As well as what you have to show for it. As far as the high value women that rejected you because you don't have a "career" at your age yet, its not about money. Its more about you showing you can settle down with a girl and raise a family than anything else. Yes "Social Economics" are at play here, but they are at play at all levels with girl. The majority of girls are raised from birth to marry up and never down.

I do agree that high class/value girls do require different "game", but I think a lot of the principles and what have you that work on the other girls will work on high value girls.

The way I see it, if J-Lo's love don't cost a thing, neither should any other woman's.

You're being generic (to the point of sounding like PUA Public Relations Marketing Bump), guys aren't either ugly or Brad Pitt full stop.
But scientific fact can help explain physical attraction. It has been well known about the "mathematics" behind physical attraction and how it gives us accurate clues to a persons genetic make up.
Remember were are having (or should be having) sex with females- why do we enagage in such activity?
It so we can pass on our genes into healthy babies.
Physical Attraction= Good Genes
Good Genes= Good Health.

Some guys who are overweight, out of shape, have an "unsymetrical face", have bad hair, dont have any attractive features lose out on more attention hence more dates, hence less chances of appealing to women, which lowers your value in the eyes of other women.

Women, in less than 30 seconds flat, will decipher each individual males genetc make up on his own "physical merits" (providing his has any of course).
Women do rate a males physical attractiveness and will have sex with an attractive male just to "reward" him.
Women may have only had 2 "official boyfriends" but will slip away on a "girls only" holiday to fuck as many good looking guys as possbile.
You guys saying, "oh are you saying all girls are sluts etc etc".
No but they only disclose 20% of the guys they're sleeping with.
Next time you are asking a girl about relationships and she talks about the two guys she slept with, say "What about the others that "don't count""




Wealth is not all about money. It is also about how successful you are in your life and what you have done and what rewards you gotten because of it. As well as what you have to show for it. As far as the high value women that rejected you because you don't have a "career" at your age yet, its not about money. Its more about you showing you can settle down with a girl and raise a family than anything else. Yes "Social Economics" are at play here, but they are at play at all levels with girl. The majority of girls are raised from birth to marry up and never down.

I do agree that high class/value girls do require different "game", but I think a lot of the principles and what have you that work on the other girls will work on high value girls.[/quote]

Your reply is just a better way of wording what I said intially.
Money is an "outcome" of your "Wealth" I agree (Wealth and Money are not the same things).
However we live in a Capitalist Society that uses the "Monetary System" whether we like it or not.
However I did mention Im working on my Wealth Building Plan and I stand by original statement that PUA should stop this "money dont matter" shit.

Even a 16 year old these days recognises this fact.
My ex-boss, has a son who works for a well known Sports Car Manufacterer as a Head Factory Technician.......aged only 18 years old.
He knew the reason that girls were pictured laying on cars aged 12 (lets face it it isn't marketing- as fast cars are "High Quality Pussy Magnets")
Aged only 18 this "kid" gets more High Quality Ass than a toilet seat and has girls ("genuine" HB8s and HB9s) arguing over who gets to take him home to his bought and paid for pad.

It is all about money. Looks mean little for most girls. Men put a huge emphasis on looks, but females don't walk around saying, "Oh, I want to get in bed with him because he is hot!" I know you think they do, but they don't. Now, a guy who can take her shopping at the multi-storied Armani store off of Via Montenapoleoni followed by a few evenings at The Four Seasons just down the street will be perceived as romantic, sexy, and damn good looking. A $600 a night hotel room will get ANY girl aroused. I mean ANY girl.

You like sex and girls like to shop. This isn't the movies. Sex is just not the number one or two or even three thing on most girls to do list. Spending your money is what they want to do.

If females were like men you would be like gay boys. Always running around boning. There would be bath houses all over the place. You wouldn't even have to look a girl in the eye before you got busy with her.

Hell, one in three females would prefer cleaning your place than having sex with you.
http://www2.canada.com/saskatoonstarpho ... ceaff71418

Women can want to sleep with guys becuase they are good looking, despite what some MM dude will tell you.

Trust me I used to work in a cafe with an all female staff, when they weren't working or flirting with me they were checking out guys on street, which ones they would do and which ones they wouldn't. I did the same with women

Key advice here: Clean yourself up good, YOUR BEING WATCHED!!!

Easy example, take a look in a womens magazine, look at the guys in that, theirs one in "the sun" (admittedly it's a tabloid rather than a magazine) called "the naked quizmaster" He's 95% naked, buff, good looking..... if women didn't want to sleep with people becuase of looks wouldn't they not bother with hiring a good looking model? Infact wouldn't the concept of good looking be obsolete to women if looks had no real deciding factor in attraction.

Women have different levels of attraction, one of them is looks.

Very true. As it will be stupid to say that looks are not a factor in attraction. I know what women considers attractive physically differs from woman to woman. Tho I still stand what I said before that most guys fall in the average looks area. As not every guy can be as hot or attractive physically as Tom Cruse. It is impossible for it to happen. Tho cosmetic surgery is changing this.



I basically agree with that you said, but still disagree with the money thing. More that you seem to have a mind set that you need a high six figure plus job to get girls and you don't. I am not saying money is not a factor as it is, but as you pointed out we live in a Capitalist Society and so not everyone can be at the top of the economic ladder. More people are going to be at the bottom than anything else with the select few at the top and some in the middle, ala pyramid structure. Anyone with basic economic knowledge would know this. And I am quite aware of what high value items can do for you. As it says under my user name, I live in Orange County, California. So its not like I don't see how girls react when some guy in his mid 20's pulls up in a 2000+ BMW 3 series. But I go back to what I asked you earlier which is if money and looks are all that is needed to get girls then why does pick up work then? Because according to your argument/logic if I flashed my money and had good looks I can get any girl I want, but somehow I don't see every reasonable to good looking guy that is in his mid 20's getting girls that easily.

Dumb jerk...thanks for making me feel ugly!

Quoted from my reply to Frame:

i know this sounds preachy but thank you for saying this.

my parents arn't millionaires but they have enough money so that i wear designer clothing and we have flats in Amsterdam and St Tropez. I have always been gifted with a large group of friends and i am bi-lingual.

just a sec i really need to rant here: DO YOU THINK THAT I WAS DRAPED IN WOMEN? THAT SOMEHOW BECAUSE THE OTHER GUYS IN COLLEGE WEAR SHIT FROM PRIMARK THAT I SOMEHOW COULDN'T BEAT WOMEN OFF WITH A STICK FUCK NO!!!. INSTEAD I GOT SOME FUCKING DICKHEAD WORKING IN THE BLOODY CO-OP GO OUT WITH THE HBOFF THE CHARTS WHILE I STAYED IN THE FUCKING SIDELINES LIKE AN AFC, THIS DIDNT HAPPEN ONCE BTW THIS HAS HAPPENED TIME AND TIME AGAIN.

do you know how lonely i felt? do know that the one girl who agreed to go out with me ditched me on our first date for "somebody better" guess who he is? a drug dealer who lives with his mum in a council house. Hey according to the original post though they should have gone for the money ey?

without the book the "Game" and the Pick Up Artist Forum i would never have even had a girl look at me, let alone find me attractive

judge me all you want im just a guy trying not to be an afc

blablablablablabla.

I <3 Madals, I <3 Fin, I <3 Everyone.

Money, Wealth, Power just gives social value.
You're still leaving out two things:
1. Comfort/Emotion/Rapport
2. Sexual Escalation

Leave out comfort you get buyer's remorse, a horny gold-digger, etc.

Leave out sexual escalation you get a metal wall you cant jump over because you forgot to kino escalate, state your intent, and you've probably become just a rich friend who she poaches money off of.

Leave out both, like the OP, and you get girls who want you. But later feel slutty, or LJBF you, etc.

So... OP is merely an rAFC. Made a new epiphany that social value matters.
However he's got longs way to go and needs to realize that comfort and sexuality are also very very important in the game.

<33 Grape

_________________
http://highschoolpuas.proboards.com

http://highschoolpuas.proboards.com

Grape's eBook of 2009 (71 pages of useful information) http://www.scribd.com/doc/24523878/Grap ... ok-of-2009

Each piece of the pie is impotent,

Money = The quality of a lifestyle that your able to uphold.
Looks = First impression, But its more then having a nice face and hot body. (Being well groomed, Dressing well, and confident body language is equally impotent)
Power = Social Status, Money, Physical size, Knowledge
PUA = Is a social dynamics, money and power does not make you good with women.


There are many men out there with money but no game, they may be able to get a girl but 9 out of 10 times they are getting played.

There are also many men that look great and have a decent job but they come to the community still a virgin, why?

Everyone get rejected sometimes, even the best of us do. The idea is to become the package, and why would you want to be with a shallow woman? I believe that this game is more about getting laid, its about getting a life.

Become the 10!

_________________
-47

MySpace - www.myspace.com/forty_7
Seattle Lair - www.Seattlelair.org

You young boys need to step back from the cheese that is hip-hop. Seriously. Just because some lame corporate rapper makes songs about them doesn't mean it should be believed. Here is a secret...ALL GIRLS WANT GUYS WITH MONEY. Be done with it. In the modern day world money is sexy. Pure and simple.