Chief, there was more actually discussion in hair care here that what this was origionally about...... also why is it that frame2advancement mentioning of illegally getting the natural game dvds not the mention the multiple flaming/person attacks made by other users gone un-noticed? (i am not saying we were right to go onto haircare, but its an important subject! not to mention is relivant to both looks and money...)

Hobbit, I mearly used branson as an example because I was keeping with the origional idea that looks money and power gets you a vogue model - the debate of what attraction is should be kept to its own discussion. The joke of all of this is that thoughout I have actually been agreeing with most of what kasabi has been saying. Thus i dont quite know why he decided to turn on us
I am sure i have said that a few times. If that had been stated in the origional post then it would have actually been a decent discussion.

As with above I do agree with the whole power, money, looks thing.

But I feel that often official power "job titles" and money, are more to do with relationship maintenance.


I think Looks should NEVER be under-estimated.

Looks money and power are factors, your life in general are factors, but the main factor is YOU the centre of that money of that power and yadda yadda yadda.

Thats what I felt was being overlooked, it seemed like the O.P. was using these three factots to justify saying that that self improvement/PU in general is complete bollocks.

We did the majority of the thread derailing and as much "he started it" as it may sound, the behaviour demonstrated previously, within this thread wasn't standard procedure for PUAF.

"Where do you think NLP comes from, it was a form of psychology; started in the mid 1970's and a lot of PU's "philosophies on inner game" stem from NLP as well as the obvious.

NLP in a professional science environment has had great advances in the field of psychology and it's applications to modern day living."

NLP hasn't had any place in professional psychology for about 20 years and is the pinnacle of self-improvement pseudoscience. It's vague allusions to something resembling cognitive science with it's smarmy sounding name that encourages people to study actual linguistics or neuroscience is it's largest contribution to anything that has occurred in a science lab.

Kids,

Based on your posts, it's clear that you don't even know the classical definition of power let alone its multiple variations. And obviously, you've never taken a course in economics.

So you take abstract(to you) concepts that you know little to nothing about, and based on some pick up manual, think you have everything figured out. Since the both of you mention "power" so often, I've asked for your definition. You still haven't even been able to define "power" even ONE TIME. Guys . . . at the very least, just google it or look it up in the dictionary so you don't make an ass of yourself in the real World. And if you still can't figure it out, consider stopping this:

"It's all power! It's all power!" - My God, do you know how ignorant this sounds?

On the other hand, I toss the pair of you a comic routine and you go along with it like a bunch of monkeys fighting over a banana or a pair of ditzy chicks trying to figure out the wine cork routine. Nice show . . . and you still believe you kids aren't easy to read?
What is this some sort of high school gang ritual? Pick a gang and push forward? Look . . . if you demonstrate ignorance, I'm going to chuckle a bit . . . although had I known you two were still a bunch of insecure little kids, I probably would have worded my messages a bit differently.

It seems your softening up to the idea that there is a World beyond your pick up manual. Keep in mind that this is just a game. And like any game, there is always more than one way to play it.

Kasabi, I agree with your posts and i am not saying everything is power, I was saying everything effects how any given person feels about you and therefore looks money and power alone will not pick up girls but to the same extent they will have an effect on it - more as a long term thing I agree, but like i have also said thats why i am already doing things to get the money I want and I know what i still must do. Is that not the same point you are trying to make aswell?
Power is the ability to make what you want to happen, happen. That is in my opinion what power is.

As for
It isn't not some sort of gang ritual its just in my opinion making assumtions about people who you have never meet, wording things in a personal way agaisnt them rather than just discussing the points raised ruins your argument in my eyes. Even if i disagree with someone I will still listen to their point of view and then respond to their points, nothing is to be gained in my opinion from pokes at someones personality or life when you know very little about it at all. Maybe i am just to British hey

Anyway kasabi, shampoo or conditioner

1. Kasabi, you've alrady made a judgement on what I consider to be power, your reply when I quizzed you on this was somewhat along the lines of "You haven't sated your position"

Needless to say that doesn't give you a right to assume my position.

2. Calling a disagreeing intellectual opponent "ignorant" becuase he/she holds an oppossing view to yours, is arrogant and childish at best. It is not how mature adults conduct their disagreements.

3. Are you aware that for someone who spent the time that I have in PU, my most notibale feature is how little I have actually read when it comes to "pick up manuals".

4. It was an immature little joke which gave us a laugh.... "Why so serious?"

5. Yes I still believe you haven't "read" either of us, seeing as you have yet to make any accurate judgements upon us, even when it comes to stuff that could be found out by reading through our past posts.

6. Once again, nice show of name calling. Really you can cut that, I'm willing to have a mature discussion with you if you are?

(I'm actually wondering whether you'll agree to this or just go "FLAME ON!!!!!!!!!!!" and spin off into another rant which calls us childish, ignorant, insecure and hypocritical to ask for such things.

7. "Had I known you were a bunch of insecure little kids"- You must of at least seen as post before, if not in this thread.... why had your prowess not caught on to this blantant flaw in our characters.......

8. If you really want to know my definition of power, in a human context, it is anything that allows us to manipulate our surroundings, social connections, finance, physical ability to implement our will, religious high-ground, ability to perssuade, The ability to influence PR.

Anything that is in our skill set to help us achieve success.


9. Yeah was researching NLP last night, turns out it has alot of Critiquing points to deal with. Overall I still enjoy the "science" in it, and I still can see it useful in self development.

I had heard it was being repeatedly challenged, never realised it was to such a extent.

Edit: I don't even disagree with you regardling like 90% of this; your argument seems to lie mostly in flaming and insulting me and madals rather than trying to present your case.

ur missing the point lol

Madals,

You're truly an incredible character. I agree with your last post . . . and in fact, most of your contributions in this thread. You're much more mature than your years.

Fin,

You have ways to go but the good news is that you have many years to do this. Your last post is a classic demonstration of insecurity. Read it for yourself again. . . and work on in it if you want to. Read Madal's post as a reference point. Recognize any differences?

Back to topic:
The key word here is "manipulate" as this is the major difference between strength (which is the capacity to manipulate) and power. (capacity in MOTION)

Can money help you implement your will or not? Does it or does it not have ability to persuade? Does money influence? Does money manipulate surroundings or not? Thus Money is not some stagnant "sign" that you have power. Money IS power.

Thus when you typed:
You are essentially agreeing that money has a lot more influence on our game than you're willing to admit.

*You're in school: consider a class in economics . . . really . . . those all inclusive economics classes designed for arts majors will at least cover history of fiat money and value systems)

1. Thank you for clearing the power up. Is that a technical definition if so, in what context, sociologically or economically?

Money I would put it at most it is A FORM of power, but I think to say it IS power, is to put too much emphasise on money, that is healthy for someone trying to learn PU. (I am a fan of balance)

Money in contemporary western society is a neccesity, if you don't have it, it shuts alot of doors. That can't be ignored.

2. Similarly someone who has money and looks, can still be a tottaly repugnant person. I had ZERO problems with 90% of what you posted, I was simply disagreeing with certain under and over tones that the O.P. held. I felt that his position was that of someone who has dumped his problems onto three simple factors. It seemed very, THIS WILL GET YOU WOMEN EVERYTHING ELSE IS OBSOLETE! His definition of power and of status seemed to revolve heavily around finance. I'm not sayng that is wrong, I'm just saying their are other ways in which power and attraction can be generated.

3. Game is all about power, admittedly that's a wide brush but the semantic meaning behind it remain the same, pre-selection, social proof, "alpha behaviour", leader of men. They are just ways to demonstrate status, authority and power "admittedly primarily in a social context.

4. I'm not actually in school, I just took psychology becuase I wanted to expand my knowledge, I enjoyed the scraps and bits and peices I got here and wanted to try my hand at it in a more academic fashion. I've enjoyed it so far, so I've decided to run with it in uni.

I feel fairy clued up on the way the economy runs, wouldn't what your talking about in the economics class come under "social philosiphy"?

5. Me and Madals often are on msn while posting here, (seeing as we generally hold very similar idea's about PU, we often discuss each others posts, and talk about on going threads) both of us were completely perplexed as to why your attack campaign was launched with such vigor. And both of us could not understand why the attack campaign had been launched in the first place when neither of us really disagreed with you in any major form.

I appreciate that you've toned down your post in its aggressiveness, but I would wonder... you've flamed me just as hard as adam why the change in tone towards him now? I honestly can't see it.

The main difference I can see is bullet points, I use bullet points becuase it allows me to make several "points" which are clear and unmissable. As oppossed to a full out rant like paragraph post, where things can be misinterpreted and blurred.

Still look how much time you spend critising your intellectual opponenets and assuming (or claiming to understand) their stances, background, views etc.

Then compare that to other debates that have been had on this forum. Your maybe the 3rd person in all my time here, who I have ever seen resort to personnal attacks as a serious mode for conveying a message.

You remind me a bit of a fundamental christian I used to debate with on a forum.

She could spend all day tellling others how we were all ignorant or blind, or terrified of the lord, or angry at jesus, or conspiring with science against the forces of purity.

When asked why she drew those types of conclusions.

"Bah! Just look at your last post, It SMACKS of ignorance and fear of christ!"

Ask her to be specefic... it was all too often ignored. Care to highlight the points where we were being ignorant and insecure? As blatant as they are too you, I find them difficult to pin point.

I use madals as an example to further question your "reads" your attitude to him seems to have changed, dramatically, although you do claim now to have agreed with the majority of his posting. Your initial "reads" of his character lumped him with me as an "insecure little schoolkid" (I'm not too certain of the specefic title we were given) Main jist was that we were ignorant wrapped up in "the community" ( a couple of refrences to MM were made) made assumptions about things we had no experience in and were insecure.

Why was your intial read of Madals incorrect?

True. But power does come in many forums tho. As you got physical power, emotional power, psychological power, social power, etc. So even tho money does carry weight in western society, both socially and economically, you don't need to relay on it.
The op basically describe how things work power wise in Southern California. As looks and money can basically get you any girl you want, especially if it is a girl from Orange County. But as you said there are other ways to create power and attraction. I find those ways to be far better to use in SoCal, as it eliminates most of the girls I do not want to date. And it also proves to me that you do not need money and looks to get girls.
In other words its all about being an alpha male. As an alpha male is for the most part about having power.

That observation, did you pull that out of thin air?
If a person a wealthy do you really think they could've done so all by themselves?
In order to have money you need a "wealth team". That is co-operating with either a close group, a workforce and or other organisations to generate wealth for your projects, your fellow workers and future business plans.
Do you think a person, that requires immaculate people skills, business relations skills to influence and motivate people to generate potentially millions of pounds/dollars a year would be "repugnant"?

Fin honestly get a business degree, something in economics or better still- actually start interacting with real people in the real world (even if its just working at McDonalds) and not "MSN buddies".
Fin Im going to have start beating you into a corner (not literally-metaphorically).
You keep reffering back to my original post making incorrect observations- which I assume is to Spam this thread with your metaphorical nonsense (and immaturity-both in age and juevanile posting) and not what my original point was. Heck even if you just read the thread title you'll know what this thread is about.
Go back and read the post................................you finised? Good.[/quote]

Sorry, everyone's wrong, here.

Some of you are right but no one here is 100% correct.

To put this modestly I live in a fucking rich family. My pops owns four businesses that are all very profitable. Money comes my way as easily as pulling out my credit card. I drive a 2009 fully loaded camry, and a 2009 Honda element. So yah, i'd say im pretty fucking rich.

Good looking? today a girl told me that i am 'pretty damn hot'. A girl on this fourm ranked me at a 8/10.

Oh, god. I just realized something, im a 17 year old virgin whose never had a girlfriend. Shit, Mrfickle, how could that be? beats the hell outta me when I see the high value girls going out with other 'poorer' men...

Basically, what I'm saying is yes, I could buy her the moon and have it shipped to her front door, let me whip out my iphone and text you, maybe you can enjoy my bigass fucking house or sit in my hottub or shoot some pool, I don't give a shit... All those things by themselves are not good enough. You are here to enrich your personality so that it is irresistible. A personality that makes girls want to be with you despite the fact you have not been endowed with millions of dollars.

Yah, I have not always been this rich... I didn't go out to eat for the first time until i was 13... and when i was 13 i kept telling myself: Maybe its the bigass house by the beach, maybe its the shit or cars that'll make people like me so I make friends... now that I've got it all... I still come home alone and eat my steak.

I hangout with homeless people because they are my only friends in this world. Don't be fucking enchanted by money its all a shriaid. Everyone tells you that you need to earn loads of money just so you will do good in school or work hard at your job for them.

I hope to god that one day, like me, you not will find yourself drinking alone on a Thursday night wishing you had more than fucking money and looks.

_________________
the place where optimism most flourishes is the lunatic asylum...

hahaha this post is a complete joke. yes the three factors there you mentioned attract women, sure. other factors can be alot more appealing.

say brad pitt stopped washing his hair and body, stopped shaving and dumped angelina jolie for no reason then begged another girl to go marry him, using a high pitched nasel voice. so hes talking to this one random person off the street (hb3) who he had never spoke to while he was drunk shouted at her im brad pitt then offer to buy her a new 1 million dollar house. theres a possibility she would take the house but shes not going to be attracted to him in the slightest.

we have to ask ourselfs would he look attractive? in this senairio he still has power and money and has good looks i mean his face and body are the same.

i can immidiatly tell youve never gave this stuff a shot because your so narrow minded. if you dont have these qualitys that are lacking in that story it outwieghs the power, money and looks so if you have these qualitys in abundance it would be better than power, money and looks?

_________________
Do not follow where the path may lead.
Go instead where there is no path and leave a trail.

Money, Power, and looks are just advantages.

They don't actually get the girl to remove her panties.

I know plenty of REALLY good looking guys who suck with women.

I know plenty of really rich guys who pick up women. Plus I don't tell women about my successful seduction company, but do talk about my freelance writing. Cause it works better.

The bottom line is you can have all the money, power and looks in the world and you still will fail without the correct inner psychlogy, skills and lifestyle.

Do these things make the game easier?

Of course they do.

Do they make success automatic ?

No.

Do you NEED them to be super successful with beautiful women?

No.

S