This is a topic about the female side of pickup.

I would like to hear from AFC adam, Sinn, Sean Messenger, Johnny Soporno, Gambler, and Brad-, and anyone else who considers themselves "gurus" or mpua's.. whatever you want to call yourself.


I have been wondering for a while where the pickup trend is going especially when relating to the woman's perspective. There is tons of knowledge available to men now thanks to all of the pioneers (mystery, RJ, style aswell as yourselves to name a few). Now, will the same thing happen for women? When are we going to see a female PUA or attraction artist that is and EXPERT and teaches and writes about this stuff specifically for women? When will we see the women's side of social dynamics become popular???

I am a guy, but, I have a few different girlfriends who could use a little educating. Every now and then I give my advice but most of the time its hard to translate it over to a female..

I would imagine that inner game is fundamentally pretty similar for both sex's but outer game and technique??? probably a bit different.

I was wondering if you knew any women involved or if you thought a female side of learned game will ever spring up..

I am seeing more and more females posting around on forums these days..

please discuss

Unless somehow the social roles for women and men get swapped, I don't think anytime soon.

Besides, female PUA's are called HBs.

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I'm addicted to facing my fears.

I know this is something Tyler has been talking about a lot lately. He's started to speak at some coed seminars, and has been thinking of putting together some sort of "manual" for women.

It's tough though, because unlike men, looks are tied up SOOOO much into female attractiveness.

But you can't be like "Hey, just lose 10 lbs. and get your hair done!"

There is a lot of inner game issues too, like you mentioned, involving neediness, being independent etc.

I know within a few years RSD will probably have some female material, the transition has already started.

February 14th, Tyler is releasing a Relationships book that is supposedly geared towards both men and women...

So I definitely think there will be LEGITIMATE resources out there soon.

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Real Social Dynamics Executive Coach

Who is BRAD-? http://www.rsdnation.com/showthread.php?t=35212
How did I get here? http://www.rsdnation.com/showthread.php?t=15297

Let's be Facebook friends!!! http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1602439241

I've been trying to write most of my stuff to be without too much gender bias for a while now. I realised that things really aren't that different between guys and girls because I give pretty much the same advice to women as I give to men when I coach them one-on-one. I doubt I'd write something aimed just for women, but if there was a market for it I definitely would. I'm trying to attract more women to my workshops as well because the stuff I teach is applicable to both men and women.

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"The 'Brick Walls' are there to allow you to prove how badly you want something!" ~ Randy Pausch

~ Rye

I have been trying to put together material for women and get it posted where ever I can but unfortunately that won't spread the word too much...but it is something.

But Brad- is right...a lot does rest on attractiveness for females and you cant just tell her to lose some weight, dye her hair, and more...

You can teach women these tools all you want and they will benefit them in the relationship, but they must also be able to physically attract a man.

I slightly disagree with you guys on this one. The truth is you can tell a girl to lose weight, do something with her hair, and get a tan. It all just takes discipline and dedication.

Of course if someone is born with terrible looks then they are at a disadvantage. But a little work in the areas that you can change such as those I mentioned above and you are on your way.

Another issue which is controversial but available is plastic surgery.

With all that said. I think a women who really puts work into her personality, charm, and inner game can still become very attractive. Yes of course the first thing a man considers when he is introduced to a lady is her looks. But there have been plenty of women through out time who didn't have looks and still got their man.

Fat chicks are like mopeds: fun to ride until you're friends find out.

The above is not something I personally believe, and it's certainly not an attitude I endorse, but it does illustrate a trend in our society: physical appearance is ridiculously important until it stops being important. For the guys who come to a site like this, and especially for the guys who develop these skills to any sort of aptitude, yeah, physical appearance is going to be the deciding factor a lot more often. It determines who we approach, there are rating systems involved, and we're terribly superficial.

But there really is no such thing as an ugly girl, only lazy ones. I have watched some hideous women pick up good looking guys at bars. I have seen some terribly socially awkward men pick up girls in bars, too. I think the idea that a woman has to be physically attractive to pick up guys is the very definition of a self-limiting belief. Any woman capable of ramping sexual tension will usually find herself a willing (and typically attractive) bed partner.

An example I'll use is an ex-coworker of mine who was likely one of the most disgusting women I'd ever met. She was thirty pounds overweight, had pronounced acne, a huge nose, and unkempt hair. She brought home good looking men from the bar on a regular basis. From what I understand, she's breeding now (*shudder*).

Also keep in mind that a lot of guys have some fucked-up taste when it comes to women. There's a reason midget-BBW-barefoot-amputee porn has an audience. I'll refrain from making any jokes about present company. ^_^ Finding the guys who dig what you've got, regardless of what you've got, might be a challenge, but that doesn't mean it's not doable.

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Repent now and save 50% on your next divine judgment.
-Monkey's Little Brother, Spud

While it mostly would do to work on the outwards looks of the woman, some women if not all would also benefit hugely from working on their inner game.
as Brad said.

I think most people in general could benefit from having work done on their inner game, and their representation of the world.
But this almost enters over into spirituality, and beliefs.
Which is unstable ground, indeed.

I usually try to provoke people to think in new terms, get rid of the classical ideas concerning value, how words shape the world we live in, the Ego and Duality vs Singularity.

Not getting to attached to the materialistic parts of the world.
And all sorts of pseudo-new age-hibbyjibby

And for some reason Eckhart Tolle has popped up with varying frequency this last half-year. Him and Robert Anton Wilson are people I recommend in order to regain the healthy skepticism you need in order to deal with the western world.

But that is the qualifying statement to your argument. Yes, less attractive women can still bed partners, but for most women that is not their end goal. The goal of female pua for most is to attract and maintain a relationship with a high value man...not just get him in bed.

I am not saying that less attractive women cannot attract high value men...there are things a woman can do to increase her attractiveness. BUT it is such a double standard that looks should have to be emphasized in female game when one of the main facets of pu for men: that you can attract and seduce women even if you aren't up there on the attractiveness scale. Like I said, it is sad that there is such difference on the importance of looks...but it does exist. If I were to try and help women and only tell them to worry about their inner game and not worry about their looks---i would be doing them a disservice because they wouldn't get the results they want. Yes, female game relies on a strong inner game...but the advantage goes to the females who are also attractive. And remember, preferences vary from man to man so I'm not saying they have to be universally attractive.

And on a final note: I'm not sure who said it now, but plastic surgery should not be suggested to women to improve their looks. If they decide to do it on their own, that is their perogative. But no one (male or female) should be convinced that their appearance is SO bad that they have to get plastic surgery to attract people and that is not something that the pua community should support.

I hate to point this out, but most guys would like to form a relationship with a high quality woman too. The problem as I see it is most women prefer guys who are attractive to other women, been involved with a number of them, and yes have slept with a number of them so they know what to do when they are between the sheets with them. The goal of pick-up isn't sex, but for most guys who are new it is because it's what they've had to live without.
A man wanting a woman to be good looking is not a double-standard ... it is the standard! It's evolution. To say it's a double-standard is to say, "it's not fair for guys to have been evolved to look for physical attractiveness as their key determinant for what constitutes a good mate, while women evolved to look for men who will provide for women and keep them safe." Just because guys don't necessarily have to be good looking to get a beautiful girl, doesn't mean it's not fair, but if you think it isn't maybe you should take another look at the whole natural selection model that is the basis for natural processes in this world.

The advantage of women who are beautiful is what drives women to wear make-up, starve themselves, have whole loads of eating disorders, etc. Then they turn around and blame society for the proliferation and inundation of scantily clad models on every printed surface. Then when they are still not satisfied they blame men, and we can't change millions of years of evolution overnight. We do however want to have sex, and to do so for a man means they have to get it up. Guess what? We have an image buried deep in our brain that says it ain't gonna happen if the selected partner isn't pretty close to that long buried image.

The female equivalent of the Seduction Community has been around for thousands of years. Men are just now recognizing what it is that women really want, and are starting to work toward that goal. I guess we could all bemoan the fact that guys that are physically imposing and wealthy have an advantage, but it's just no use, because we can't change what women want by griping about it. Men still have to be well groomed, and fashionable so we aren't completely without a appearance component to our game.
I don't remember it ever being discussed, but I would never tell someone to get plastic surgery. All surgery is dangerous. I do wish however there was a quick method to make me six inches taller, a millionaire, and in return I only have to spend about a month and a half recovering. Hey, if all that stands between you and happiness is plastic surgery then it's completely up to you to decide what you want more, but some things aren't as easy to correct.

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Artax
Devil's Advocate

"You're only as young as the women you feel."
"I am the Master of my unspoken words, and the Slave to those words that should have remained unsaid."