the 5 series is bigger. who buys a compact luxury car anyway? if u have the money for a luxury sports car, get one that can easily seat 4 plus luggage. if you want something fast that handles well, get a vette

thats just my opinion

OK guys stop that before someone starts confusing GWM for BMW lol
Mystery bases attraction on a system of lower and higher "value." There is no such thing as lower and higher value because all human beings have infinite and equal value. The assumption that anyone has a higher value than anyone else is an illusion. As a magician Mystery is working with illusions, but illusions aren't the truth, and therefore not the most effective way to seduce.

What is attraction? Sexual attraction. Lust. Arousal. Making her want to fuck you is attraction. Making her want to be on your "level" of value or whatever is disillusionment that prevents you and everyone else from seeing the truth and achieving enlightenment, therefore making you continually seek material illusions to fill that insatiable hole in your heart.

i think MM and M3 model are the best resource out there for any PUA.

it's a great foundation that you apply directly to picking up, and indirectly when you begin a relationship. i like the structural approach because it helps you realize your sticking points.

i don't know of any other system that isolates each phase or zone as well as M3 model. all other methods seems to blend things together into a mosh that is VERY difficult to master.

since MM is so simple, it allows you to fill in the gaps and make it your own.

also to respond to chief's comments about attraction and value in mm:

i don't think MM really says that people HAVE lower or higher value, but rather, PERCEIVE lower or higher value. I think the best way to learn attraction is to learn how these perceptions can be manipulated.

Here is a detailed breakdown of the model: http://www.thepualife.com/outergame.htm

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Spiritually speaking, I agree with you 100%. This is the way things SHOULD BE. . . but it's not. There is no point in history where this was ever the case. There is no way you're going to sit there and tell me that a fat, ugly, negative, complaining, whining, and crazy weirdo is JUST as valuable to YOU as a gorgeous, beautiful, sexy, intelligent woman. (Sure you'll say, "I bet that there's a guy out there who'd like a loser like that just as much as I like my hot, positive girls.". . . yeah, right. . . as long as it's not you)

This is an extreme example but logically speaking, if two extremes exist, there can be a scale between the two. If that fatty lost some weight? Hmm. . . now how about if she got her face redone? So she reads some self help books and whines less and becomes more proactive with her life? Now what? Did she just climb in value or not?
No . . . the assumption that anyone has higher value than others is PERCEPTION. . . If you're a celibate zen Buddhist monk who's been meditating in a cave for the last 20 years of your life, then what you say might carry some weight. However, unless you're gaming and banging fat ugly chicks on par with the rest of your hotties, then you're perceiving some to have higher value than others. Perception is more powerful than the truth . . .

In regards to M3, I just read the breakdown on that site. Hats off to the Mystery dude. It's really well thought out. Here's another thing. Some naturals probably can't explain what it is that they do but if we were to shoot videos of "naturals" in action, I bet we could easily pinpoint in chronological order the steps that they took in M3. It doesn't seem like something that Mystery made up but rather, what he cataloged after studying general male/female dynamics.

It seems possible that those sub-categories could overlap but less likely the main 3 categories would. If you're teaching this stuff to make a living, it would make sense to be as specific as possible.

Guys,
The sooner you stop playing around with the bullshit of illusions and false perceptions the sooner you will simplify your seductions from you wanting to have sex with a girl to you having sex with that girl.

If you don't believe me then just try it for yourself. It's an arduous journey to stripping away disillusionment, though... but it's well worth it.

Chief don't you think that mystery is reffering to values as perceptions from others and not actual value levels in reality? If someone percieves you as higher value, then you are of high value.
I agree with you that there is in fact no like ranking system, everyone is equal, no such thing as better or worse.
Im pretty sure mysterys DHV ideas are designed to make her see you as higher value, not actually be higher value.
Do you not agree that a DHV is socially specific? I agree that everyone is equal really - but not in a society. Hense why it is ''social dynamics'' and not reality dynamics.

If im wrong please feel free to correct me.

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V1V

Perceptions are reality....

Ah remember those old times debating in PUAF chat?

In fact fin your 100% right. In which case in reality you ARE of higher value, as it is percieved not only by others, but yourself.
I knew all that arguin in the chatroom was worth it fin

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V1V

Chief,

You can't lecture everybody about how equally valuable everybody is if you're "choosing" to have sex with one girl over another. Do you "choose" to hang out with some people over others? Do you in fact pass some homeless bums at night and go, "What the hell, hey guys, come over tonight and invite your ladies too . . ."

There are ABSOLUTELY better and worse human beings in life. You yourself walk around every day demonstrating this fact. Unless you can some how demonstrate to us that YOU do not judge value in others, you're a hypocrite. . . and I'm quite certain that you yourself probably value hypocrites to be lower in value than those who are not.

Also, think about removing the term "false Perception" from your guru vocabulary repertoire. It's a condescending term used by uneducated spiritual leaders of the World any time they feel threatened by another belief system.

You have to understand that the way we perceive value in others is completely selfish. We do not notice who has the highest value, we notice who has the highest value for us. You are passing unfair assumptions and thinking in a very archaic manner by thinking that human beings are not equal. Value is a very intangible concept, but I think it HAS to be viewed in a perspective sense. For almost all of us here, we would definitely think that Jessica Alba is of higher value than an 88 yrd old female war-amp leper who was def and blind. This is because Jessica Alba could give us one fine looking baby, as well as props and respect from admirers, whereas there is not apparently much that the old lady could do FOR YOU.

I define value as the quantity and importance of survival and replication needs that one can satisfy for you should you align yourself with them. If you reproductive needs are met, and you are getting laid often enough to satisfy you, then your perception of value among females changes. The plastic club girls or airbrushed supermodels that you once ogled at, now no longer intrigue you as much. Your sense of what is valuable to you in a woman changes to other things like personality or money (you gold-digger you! ). I am not going to be the voice of unquestionable ethics and say that 'all people are equal.' But I must insist that your sense of value, your map of reality (as the NLPers would say), has much more to do with YOU, than the woman you are drooling over.

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Like I wrote earlier, spiritually speaking, I believe we are all equal. However, in terms of EVERYTHING else, people have never treated each other equally for anything.
(You cannot EVER "notice" who has the highest value in general because there is no such thing as VALUE without reference point(s) and without beneficiaries.

We ALL do this every moment of our lives, not just in regards to others but in regards to where we live, the food we eat, etc . . . Otherwise, there would be no need for choice would there?

If we don't like one "school's" interpretation of this game, we're FREE to choose. By doing this, we have in fact chosen one program to have higher value than another. All I'm saying is you can't do this when ever you feel it's convenient for you and then go with the "Kumbaya, we're all equal" line when you want to sound like a yogi. (That's another fun topic. Why do we use the term "gurus" here? Those yogi gurus used to run that "false perception", "we're all equal" stuff all the time but then they'd bang all the ditzy, big tittied blondes every night after all day sumatra sessions)

And if MOST of us, as you wrote would think of Jessica Alba of having higher reproduction value to us than the 88 year old lady, wouldn't it be logical to think that perhaps it does a have A LOT to do with the women who we are drooling over? The 88 year old lady CAN'T even reproduce for God sakes . . .

Exactly my point. But I think the reference point is general what your needs are.
Because these women have a higher sexual value for them. Of course it makes sense to mate with the best genetically gifted women as possible. But that is only one form of value.
I didn't say reproduction value. You implied that, but most people here would imply this. Heck, this is a forum about how to bed women for Christ's sake. If I posed the same question to another lonely (and impotent) man in his late eighties, and this women happened to be very loving and kind (perhaps minus the leprosy and blind/def part), then to him the companionship of this woman might outweigh the sexual value that Jessica provides. Like I said, it depends on YOUR needs. It is common to think that this is linear because most of us are in the same boat, with similar mind-sets. Most of us are in our sexual peak (but like I said, varies with amount of abundance of women you enjoy), meaning that someone with apparent sexual reproductive qualities would rate very high on our need list, and hence our perceived value for her/him.

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"Attraction is not a choice." David Deangelo

There's a much easier way than messing around with all this "perceived value" crap.

Come on . . . Do I really need to outline this for you? Do you then "NOT BY CHOICE" bang 88 year old grannies with no teeth? Do you then "NOT BY CHOICE" invite homeless guys home for a round of beers? Choice is not the issue.

You probably can't explain why you like a certain ice cream flavor over another but it doesn't matter and that's not my point. The point is that one flavor has more value over another to you. Otherwise, you'd take them all on a round robin and have every flavor equally. You'd also invite that hot girl over, then the next day, you'd invite that homeless, toothless guy over the next day for sexy times. You probably don't do this. . .

I'm not sure why contradiction is part of what ever program your touting but it's beginning to sound really lame.