Hey guys,

I need a quick opinion on something... This topic has really bothered me for quite some time...

Before getting into the discussion, let me give you some information on my background: I am in my thirties and I live in a big German city. So I have been "in the game" for a while, I was never really bad with women but never a player also. When I discovered the "community" (about a year ago), I was intrigued by the idea that this stuff could in fact be learned like any other set of skills. I guess most of you can relate to that! So I began studying just about everything that I could get my hands on, so far I have read thousands of pages and watched and heard hundreds of hours of PU-related video and audio.

Most of the material I read and all of the in-field footage I saw (Mehow Infield Insider, Keys to the VIP, Mind of Mystery footage, you name it...) is from the U.S. of course. So, as a German guy, I always try to put this stuff into my context and I thought a lot about "cultural differences" between the U.S. and Germany. Let me add that I have been to the States quite a bit and that I have lived in Chicago for 6 months. So I think that I know that there are some cultural differences between the U.S. and Germany and I say that without favoring one country over the other.

The actual question:
What are the core differences between the U.S. and Germany (or other European countries if you would like to make the question more general) as far as "The Game" is concerned?

Of course I already have a take on this, but I would really like to share my opinion after I get some unbiased responses.


The second question would be if anyone knows good German resources like field reports and in-field footage. I have read almost all of the reports of the "big names" in PU, most of them are from the U.S. and I have yet to find something similar in quality in German.

I hope that I am not the only one interested in this and that we will have a good discussion...

inSINuate

P.S.: Posted this in the "Newbie" section although it's not really a newbie question because I am new to this forum and not allowed to post in "General Discussion"...

I've thought about this alot and the culture at least here in the UK is very different from the US. I guess the rest of Europe bears more similarities to the UK as opposed the the US.

While the basic principles are the same, I'd say people are generally more reserved here. In the US people are fairly open about talking to strangers about themselves etc.

In my opinion the cultural differences definitely have an effect on the type of game. Here there is more of a reliance on alcohol binge drinking when going out, where I feel in the US this isn't so common and its more about saving face and social perception in clubs. I think routines are more suited to the US scene and here inner game is more dominant. It may be more down to the fact English girls are somewhat more 'attainable' to be polite

What I'm saying is typically people are more conservative. E.g In the US people will typically smile and say hello to strangers on the street, ask enquire how they are. It doesn't really play out like that here.

Would be interesting to see what other people think. I have definitely felt there are some things I've read about pua that would struggle to work in the UK.

Agreed on the Germans, disagree on UK vs US.

I've run the same stuff on Brits, Canadians, Americans, Irish, Aussies and Kiwis and gotten results with same consistency. I think the culture in English speaking countries is similar enough for your game to travel without getting lost. As for binge drinking, it doesn't matter because true PUAs don't do it and neither do most HBs.

But with Swedes, Finns, Brazilians and Germans (aka all the sexy countries) I couldn't build rapport. I got the impression with them that they thought I was being overly friendly.

The club culture is certainly very different in Europe, many people go out at midnight and stay out til 7am. This is not the norm in English speaking nations and it may have an effect on social situations.

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Vidi. Vici. Veni.

I've often thought that some of the über positive American attitude just wouldn't work over here, we often have a natural dislike for people who boast or try too hard.
I think you have to be a little more self-depreciating and have an acceptable amount of cynicism, this can easily be worked into a form of cocky funny though.

I also assume humor is more important but I don't have much experience with Americans to back that up, more girls are also likely to be uncomfortable with kino if they've just met you.

Thanks for your replies... Unfortunately, I have almost no experience with English speaking countries other than the US.

When I moved to the US I found that people were a lot more open to talk to a stranger than in Germany. "Fluff talking" about anything seemed to be a lot easier than at home. This may of course be biased because people were always recognizing my accent, so they would ask me were I'm from etc... But I also found that I would actually be opened (also by guys) just for small talk when sitting in a bar etc. This rarely, if ever, happens at home.

This has an upside and a downside for me: On the one hand, I really liked the friendly, sociable vibe I was getting, this makes things a lot easier if you are a stranger. On the other hand it was hard to tell for me wether people were just superficially friendly or were really meaning what they were saying. Don't get me wrong on this: I don't want to say that Americans are more superficial than Germans or anything like that. It's all a matter of social calibration and how to interpret things correctly.

As far as gaming girls is concerned, my guess would be that the most notable differences are:

1. Opening indirectly in a smooth way is much harder. Talking to stranger is not so much the social norm, so opening a girl is likely to convey interest, even if you do it indirectly. We all know that opening indirectly while conveying interest is a bad thing: Imagine having strong eye contact with a girl and then walking up to her and running an opinion opener. She is likely to loose all respect for you because it's obvious that the opinion opener is just an excuse for you to talk to her and that you don't have the confidence to just say "Hi". The whole point of indirect openers is that you come in "under the radar" and that it seems that you are just talking to a random person and it happens to be her.

2. "Cock blocking", "Anti Slut Defenses" and LMR are less likely to occur. In his above post, Zarathustra wrote about the "sexy countries". I don't think that people are more sexual here, I think there are just less double moral standards. An American friend visiting me here in Germany was totally surprised (not to say shocked...) about finding a sex shop in the middle of a shopping mile with a non-covert entrance and a regular (=see through) shopping window.

3. AMOGs are much less of a problem.

Some examples to back that up:
I remember one of Brad P's lay reports, where he meets two German girls and is all surprised that the friend does not cock block him.

Some of my experiences:
- A few weeks ago I saw a girl and a guy in a club, she was giving me eye contact but she was leaning in closely to the guy so I didn't approach her because I thought it was her boyfriend. Later she opened me, and I found out that the guy was her brother (lesson learned!). She was obviously horny so I tried to extract her from the club ASAP. She went home with me within 45 minutes after meeting me, all under the eyes of her older brother (she was in her early twenties) whom I didn't talk to a single word.

- I had a girl come over to my place for a "day 2". On the phone she said: "Well, yes, I am coming over. But don't expect me to act like a virgin.". So she basically wanted me to agree on the phone that we would have sex. We hadn't even kissed before. So much for LMR.

I guess there are girls like that here and there, but I still think that things like that are less likely to occur in the US than in Germany.


Now, the really important thing of course is to not only find out about the differences but to adjust your game accordingly! That's what this is all about. Maybe thinking that approaching is harder here in Germany is just another limiting belief, maybe you just need to do it a little differently. What I want from my game is: Choice, consistency and being able to get the girls that are really hot. I have seen indirect approaches only work inconsistently here in Germany. Maybe this is because the guys I watched were doing it wrong, but I doubt that. On the other hand, direct approaches are very hard to pull off on a 9 or 10 for most guys. Any thoughts on this are appreciated...

inSINuate

inSINuate, I very much agree with your observations. I can see many similarities with what you described and the behaviour over here. Although its definitely easier when you are abroad, being a foreigner is very appealing.

However these may be just failings in our game. Given the newbie section. I think solid inner game should overcome alot of this. (Having an air of confidence and not showing signs of worrying opening is appearing too direct). Yes you noted that approaching is seen as more direct even if she does detect it does provide some cover. Instantly building comfort or setting a time constraint should help to alleviate this.

It is hard to both honest and diplomatic about the differences in such public domains!

Interested to hear your thoughts on how to adapt standard game.

Walt, thanks for sharing your thoughts...
We are all products of our upbringing and the culture we live in, so what I wrote was meant totally non-judgemental. Even some American friends of mine who live in Germany would agree with this observations.
Well, that's the reason I started this thread: I don't really know how to do it, other than maybe opening more directly. Maybe there are differences in other phases, too? Pick-up really has become a science, thousands of pages have been written about it and all those theories have been constructed. But almost all of it comes from the US. I guess a lot of it does not have to be adapted in any way, but some of it has to. That's why I wanted to hear from guys who are good and who have made experiences in the US and in Europe/Germany. I think their observations could help to nail the difference.

I like Gambler's writings, but that doesn't help me a lot, because I don't know much about the differences between the UK and Germany. According to Zarathustra's post earlier, those differences may be bigger than the differences between the US and the UK (I don't know about that: Different opinions anyone?!). I believe language is a big factor: It not only affects your sense of humor but also has an influence on the way you express yourself. For example, English sometimes is so much more concise than German, that's why so much fast-paced, quick-witted humor just cannot be translated. You just need twice as much words in German and when you are done, it's not funny anymore... On the other hand, Goethe, Schiller, Rilke or even Thomas Mann could never have written in any other language than German (but there is also no German translation of Shakespeare that does his words justice).

What I have read on German pick-up forums didn't impress me much, it really seems that there are not so many great guys around. I guess it's good that pick-up is not that much of a hype here (yet?), on the other hand it's harder to find somebody to learn from.

inSINuate

Hey man,

I've taught bootcamps and succefully picked up girls in Poland, Sweden, Germany, Holland, Ireland, and of course the US...

Heading to Croatia at the end of the month, along with another tour of Amsterdam and Poland.

Once you get to a certain point, it is ALL THE SAME. I always tell clients, what is the only constant?

Venue?

Time of day?

Girls?

YOU!!!

Work on yourself, build confidence, get comfortable closing and escalating, and the same approach works everywhere...

So much of communication is nonverbal: eye contact, body language, how strongly you open...

Your mindset. That is most important, and its consistent everywhere.

The differences were VERY subtle everywhere, just little tweaks in a given city. But things like how easily the girls open, how well they speak English... You can calibrate to those in the moment. You shouldn't be changing your overall gaming technique on every single girl.

Have the solid foundation, and micro calibrate on the fly.

Any more specific questions?

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