As the title suggests, I hope to get things going when I return to school in a couple weeks to begin second semester (as I'm on break now). Back here at home, I have my friends to hang out with but not really any girls, so it's been relaxing in that aspect. However, I haven't had much success to look back on with women, and I believe fixing something requires looking at all the mistakes - everything I haven't done right:

- I am in a mighty slump when it comes to getting a date. I've been rejected in many ways, including being stood up, getting called out in front of others, a girl ignores me or even runs away, the girl will say yes and then avoid me, a girl pretends she doesn't know me, a girl will spread some bs rumor about me to validate her rejection, a girl or two have even laughed, as if it were a joke! When I made Homecoming Royalty in high school (somehow), the girl counterpart refused to dance with me! When a girl has said LJBF in my cases, it simply means she'll avoid me and never try talking to me again. I didn't think getting a girl to spend less-than-an-hour with you at a coffee shop or to a dance would seem like such a chore (for the girl). I know you shouldn't need to cringe when it comes to getting rejected...but due to these unusually harsh experiences, it has become the norm.
- Unable to get a date is one thing...unable to have much in the way of girls who enjoy your company is a bigger issue. Trust me when I say I make an effort for rapport...in classes, around campus, at parties, etc., I am willing to introduce myself and kickstart a conversation just like anybody else. My friends act similarly to me, and they don't have any problems; they're successful here. When I do my thing though, it doesn't last - the girl might have a good time once, and the next time we meet, it's as if nothing ever happened. I also get some negative vibes and girls simply don't open up to me a whole lot - it's as if they feel I'm untrustworthy even though I've never shown or even suggested it through words or actions. On a couple occasions, my friends do something a little dumb (but not that bad) to a girl, and I get all her wrath while my friends get off scot-free. Whenever I scratch beneath the initial surface (past the hey, what's up, other small talk, etc.), girls will act very defensively even if I'm asking what their plans for the weekend or vacation are - it's like they don't even take me seriously as a person!

As for my persona, sure I have some flaws, but nothing that would really put a serious dent into my relations with girls. The cons: I can be stubborn, I'm a little shy at first when initially meeting someone, I overthink things, it's not tough to tell if I'm caught off-guard, I can be a little too lackadaisical when others would normally be stressed, and I'm not "experienced" (though I don't think girls can truly see this during a conversation). However, I balance this out with the pros: I have a sense of humor (wit, C+F), I'm usually outgoing, I can hold a conversation (keep up on current events, etc.), I have a pretty fit/athletic build and present myself well (I'm a decent looking guy), I speak well, and I'm a leader. When it's come to jobs and internships, I help create good rapport around my work environment and I get along with mostly everyone there.

Basically, whatever I seem to do doesn't work with girls. I talk about normal topics and don't harass girls by any means, but there has to be something wrong I'm doing as to why girls aren't really comfortable around me. I have good friends, they act similarly to me, and they do just fine. This all ties into the reason I made this thread...feel free to suggest anything I could be doing wrong and thus I'll be able to improve as a result of it (if you want me to elaborate on something, I will). By the time next semester rolls around, girls will hopefully see a further improved All-American.

I re-read what I wrote here last night, and I'm not quite as lost as I seem, but it's not really far off either. I get a bit hard on myself and when it comes to girls, I'm either really confident or...not so much (like right now).

A lot of it is simply frustration...I haven't really experienced any sort of "success" with girls, and I don't see any glaring weaknesses in what I do. Sure I have some little quirks (mentioned in the post above), but nothing that would be such a drastic turn-off for every single girl. And not only a turn-off, but sometimes so in that some girls will even act hostile towards me when I haven't done anything incriminating!

maybe your interests creep women out?

or bore them?

I can tell by your post there is a part of you you don't quite understand, you see, you mention you are a leader, you look good, etc.

You never say 'I'm into necrofetish movies and I like to talk about that'.

This is an extreme example but you may see my point. For a long time I struggled with finding women with similar interests, I have always been into dating rocker chicks, chicks with tattoos and piercings, women wearing black and into heavy metal etc.

I'm going for a different kind of woman now and have opened myself up to a lot of different vibes. In turn I have more interesting things to talk about other than zombie films, video games, and heavy metal. I like to discuss movies in general, music in general (learn about the latest bands), and love discussions on the mind, psychology, esp, stuff like that.

So, look at your past conversations and ask yourself.

"Am I talking about the right things to interest the type of women I am attracted to?"

Ah, my interests. Good point your bring up. However, I have a method for this, so I don't believe it's my interests that would do the damage.

I know that a lot of girls like to talk about themselves, so I usually am the one asking the questions, seeing what their interests are. I read up on a lot of things, so I can usually add a thing or two to the conversation based on their interests - sometimes I can even tie a story into it! I also know my current events, so that's a good topic of conversation too. I let her talk about herself and take the conversation from there.

Even though I believe this doesn't have to do with what my interests are, you do make a good point in that I should aim for girls whose interests are similar to mine. I was thinking that this has to do less about what my hobbies/interests/things I do are and more about a character issue, a personal thing that girls may not like.

Ok. I'm gonna be brutally honest here with ya bud.

I agree with practice. I believe there is something about yourself that you don't quite understand.

But if everything you say about yourself is true, I think it is definitely a social value issue. There obviously was something that happened or a way that you used to act that significantly lowered your social value. And because you are continuing to not have any success with girls, you are just digging yourself a deeper hole. Basically, girls don't want to date you because by doing so, it would lower their social value. (stupid, i know, but it's something that is real and must be taken into account) It is definitely possible to re-invent yourself, though, and climb back up that social ladder.

Another thing, when you say, "Sooo what are you doing this weekend?", a big red flag goes up in a girl's mind that's telling her you're about to ask her on a date. It's basically saying "I hope you're not doing anything this weekend because I was wondering if you wanted to go out with me."
Man, your classmates threw you under the bus. It happened at my school too. I heard some of my friends say "Wouldn't it be funny if she had to dance with him..." So everybody voted for this one girl and one of the less attractive, less "popular" guys. I'm afraid to tell you that you might've been this guy. And the boy and girl didn't dance either. Another social status thing.
Here might be part of your problem. Sure, girls like to talk about themselves, but not when they are talking to a guy who they might want to have a relationship with. By asking about their interests, ect., girls will go into "interview mode" which forces them to reveal things about themselves too early. Think about it. When you meet a possible new guy FRIEND, what do you do? Find similar interests and experiences right? I'm not telling you that talking about interests is taboo, but if that is all that you and the girl talk about, then she will see you as a friend too. Have LIGHT and PLAYFUL banter. PLAYFUL PLAYFUL PLAYFUL. Something that is related to this, I try to talk at least half the time. Most experts say that you should be talking 70% or 80% of the time, but for the average guy, that's hard to do. And when you're flirting with the girls, speak with confidence and don't forget to use kino. Confidence and kino are very important.
*Keep in mind that what may work for me and what may work for somebody else might be different from what will work for you. Try different things and throw out what doesn't work.


So keep your mood up, figure out who you were before and are now, and learn from your mistakes.

Good luck with everything,




white_knight

ok first off i had the same problem as u, ur not the only one that is going threw stuff like this. what i did u ask? lol i simply stopped caring. that way i gave off that vibe that i didnt give a shit what the girl thought because i knew inside that i was a fun guy and i made people laugh and i brought alot to the table in dating and i wanted a girl to prove herself to me and after alittle bit it started working. i talked to girls just as i would talk to my best friends but i would throw flirting in and all that. but u said ur usually asking them the questions which isnt always bad but ur giving them ur full attention so they basically get the thought that they have u already because all they have to do is put in there 2 cents in answering ur questions and they have u hooked and thats not how its done. ur the guy who is having fun talking to everyone and wanted to get to know her, thats all u dont want anything from her u just wanna talk and maybe if she proves herself she can have ur attention because in the end just think what makes this girl more special then everyother girl in the party you know? u dont NEED what shes offering it may be nice but u dont need it to survive so if she starts shit testing u by acting like shes not interested then give her some bad body language and let her know that shes loosing ur attention cus shes boreing an u wanna go have fun with someone else. just be happy where-ever u go and have a smile on ur face and just be yourself and put off that vibe that ur there to have fun not there to try to get with girls because thats what afc's do.

Thanks for the advice so far.

White Knight - You might be right on this, but could you possibly clarify (or give an example of) "There is something about yourself that you don't quite understand," as you could be onto something. Social value most likely played a role too...in high school. I had a unique high school experience where my social value was high AND low! It was low because I was a small scrawny "nice guy" at the time, I didn't really get invited to parties and girls didn't come up and talk to me. However, it was high as well because, due to good things I did at my school, I knew the administration, the front office (let's just say I could cut class if I wanted to and not get disciplined), the security guards, I got along with most of the big jocks, and almost everyone knew who I was. In terms of girls though...yep, it had to be pretty damn low.

Now in college, I hit the weights, developed a nice physique, and no one is going to mistake me as a "nice guy/pushover" anymore because I've changed my demeanor a bit too. Also different than high school, there isn't really much in the way of "social classes" at my college (too many people, not many frats). So I don't see how a girl would think she's dropping in social value by hanging out with me (referring to the "digging into a deeper hole" part). When it comes to the interacting with girls, I do like to bust on them (the playful banter) and have done so before. As you say though, I'll try to do this more often, as well as add a little more kino than I do now. I don't fire questions left and right, but I'd rather they talk about themselves than me going on about myself. Last thing here...you mentioned the negative of the "what are you up to this weekend" question, and you're right. Say I wanted to hang out with a girl during the weekend (in a social setting like a small party, but I can't do it at my place)...what's the best way to go about that?

Blanc - I like your advice as well. For me it's a little tough to not think about girls and dating and such, since it seems to be "in my face" all the time. You are right though. I'll keep my interactions with girls I'm talking a little shorter, play a little more "hard to get," and try not to care what image I give off (if they like it or don't like it, whatever, so be it; that's the real me).

So yeah, I like the advice I've received so far, and if anyone wants to further explain things, feel free. There's a girl I have my eye on now, and - gasp! - I still have a decent shot here. I'm on break now, but I've received some smiles and laughs from her, and we've had some "playful banter" when we were in school. Once we're back, I'll invite her to get some coffee or something like that (although I'm debating whether I should text some C+F comment to her as we still have another week or two of break). If this doesn't work out, I will really try to tweak some things and re-invent myself, as White Knight said.

You say you are a leader, yet you let the girls lead the conversations and do most of the talking. When you talk to people it should be back and forth, back and forth, with statements, jokes, etc. etc. It seems like you are interviewing the girls, which could make them uncomfortable or even frighten them. Also this is bad because the girl feels like she knows nothing about you. So when she thinks back about you she doesn't remember "oh yeah, he is into this and this" but she remembers "that was the guy that asked me a million questions... etc". Women have no connection to you or know a little bit about you in that mock interview form of communication. Also you could be that one creepy guy that trys to act like he knows/ is interested in anything the girl says....

Part of being a PUA is setting the frame of the conversation and leading the converstaion, you are simply asking questions.

Also, come on dude how many girls in college keep up with "current events"?

This reminds me of what happened at my high school before I graduated. Everyone voted for a "popular" girl, and when it came to voting for the guy... well, let's just say he was an un-clean homeless looking guy who was a known drug addict. He was also very outgoing and funny, so instead of taking it insultingly, he hung Homecoming King stickers of himself all around the school and when he won, he announced at the dance that he was dropping out of school and poked fun at the faculty.

ANYWAYS, back onto topic. It seems like everyone here has generalized your 'problem' or 'situation' to social value. The best way, in my opinion, to gain social value is to focus on YOU and not what everyone 'socially' thinks. If you can get yourself into a confident mindset, be comfortable with YOU, and go out to have fun because YOU want to have fun... people will notice.

People, in general, want to have fun. Go out and have a blast - YOU BE the life of the party for YOU. This energy you create will naturally draw people to you - guys and girls. You begin to gain a "social status" because people want to be around you, they want to have fun, and YOU ARE the "fun guy".

I hope that wasn't too confusing and repetative... then again, sometimes people need to hear things more than once.

That's just off the top of my head on how I would attempt to be more socially accepted.

[quote="All-American"]T
Blanc - I like your advice as well. For me it's a little tough to not think about girls and dating and such, since it seems to be "in my face" all the time. You are right though. I'll keep my interactions with girls I'm talking a little shorter, play a little more "hard to get," and try not to care what image I give off (if they like it or don't like it, whatever, so be it; that's the real me).

its tough for everyone, it was tough for me, its still alittle tough for me you just learn to deal with it. it wont happen right, it will happen over time. trust me ur till to be a PUA will come, nothing in life is hard it just depends on how bad u want it. u dont have to keep ur interactions with girls shorter just gotta livin them up, throw in some jokes, do some stack and throw in a false time constraint and then when u feel the time is right do a close and keep her on the edge of her seat insted of her doing it to you. remember what mystery said "if done right, it is a privilege to get picked up by a PUA" so if anything shes working to keep your attention, but dont go around all cocky just be yourself and do your thang and shit will start happening before you know it dont rush anything.

_________________

I think there is something about all of us that we don't understand yet lol. But for you, something just doesn't add up. You describe yourself as a leader, a sociable person, someone who is confident, and attractive, yet, a girl wouldn't dance with you when you won king and you can't even get a coffee shop date. I think only you know the whole story and how to fix it.


Srob's advice is very good advice for you. I didn't realize that you are now out of your old high school, so I was giving my opinion on your social situation as if you still were in HS. Anyway, srob pretty much hit the nail on the head here.



Good to see that you're motivated.


The best way to go about this is to act like you are already going to the party and that you are confident that she wants to go with you. Something like "Listen, I hope you don't have plans on Sunday because me and my buddies are having/going to a party on Sunday night and you're definitely going. You don't have a choice." Say all of this in a halfway joking manner and make it sound like you two are going to have a blast. IF YOU HAVE DONE EVERYTHING RIGHT, she will either say "Alrighty then, I guess i'm going, since I don't have a choice and all ," meaning that she doesn't have plans and wants to go OR she will say that she has something specific to do, and she genuinely means this. BE the LEADER you claim to be.





white_knight

ill second white horse about the "what are you doing this weekend." and dont get me wrong, i am in a self improvement stage as well. I recently started an anonymous blog so my stories are out in public. so Im just getting into this.

however, I have girl friends I go out with, and I see how they behave with guys. So I see that they get/ give phone numbers, and I see how they respond to these numbers. so to me, i think it is just a fabricated ego boost.

so the point. Time bridging. mystery talks about it.
I wanted to insert a link here, but mods wont allow it. anyway, youtube search for mystery time bridging

i could explain that more, but i think that vid will do the job

and you say you are shy, but outgoing. I think that just has to do with comfort zone. When i am with my friends (or drunk), I am extremely outgoing and can approach anyone for any reason. So maybe when you first meet someone, you are shy, and get forced down the typical resume convo, which will kill you.

Being in a slump is hard. but I figure it's good. It's like, the tough times make the good times that much better. I was in a slump, and it sucked. I decided to have this mental transformation, and that's what I am doing now. I am sure you choose the same as well.

I think the main issue is your mind set. like others are saying, you can't care about what others think, and bring the party everywhere you go. You dont entertain others, but use them to keep you entertained. be confident.

sorry, my mind is everywhere. first long post right there.

peace.

spade.

Thanks a lot guys. There's not really anything I can add to what you've all said, so I'll keep it in mind the next time these situations arise.

While we tackled the main concern of mine, I had two smaller, non-dating related questions regarding women (I mentioned them in the original post on this thread):

1.) When I get the LJBF line from a girl I get along with, why would they always just avoid me/block me/cut me off indefinitely even though I haven't reverted back to my old ways? I've actually accepted the "just being friends" part at this point and am not trying to score with her, but before I even do anything, I'm completely cut off. Once, a few days after being LBJF'd, the girl came over to eat with me at the dining hall, things were normal, THEN she cut me off. I though we had gotten along pretty well for awhile...hmm...

2.) Even with girls I'm not looking to date (I know them as friends or acquaintances I see a bit), I somehow still draw their ire. I don't provoke them and I don't say anything offensive or stupid, so it's not like I'm being a prick. A perfect example is last summer. I invited two girls I was friends with to a party my friend was hosting. One of the girls wanted to go to sleep and at a party, that's tough to do (even if she found a bedroom). Of course a few of us were being a little loud b/c of the alcohol. A few hours later, the girl has had enough; she erupts out of the room, and SINGLES ME OUT and begins blasting away as she's leaving the house. I was absolutely stunned...she had to know a few of my other friends were right there (but were hiding once they saw the door swing open), but she stuck to her conviction that I was solely responsible. My friends were cracking up...not at me...but at her; they used to think she was cool, now they think she's a weirdo. We weren't being THAT loud, there were obviously a few of us there, yet she chose only to blame (and hold a grudge towards) the guy who knows her the most.

Both of these are non-dating situations, but do involve my relations with girls. I'm not hitting on them, I'm not asking them out, I'm not being a jerk, but for some reason I'd still get some negative vibes such as the ones above.