This question has bugged me for years.

Why is it that field reports never identify the girl in it my name, or include a photo? Why is there no evidence that the story you are reading took place?

If I was reading an article in a scientific journal and the author made bold claims that could not be vetted, I would discard it as a lie.

(edit: I worked at New England Journal of Medicine and HighWire Press at Stanford doing online publishing of STM journals, so I know this process very well. Same standards apply to all academic research, journalism, and even non-fiction -- think of the firestorm that came out when "A Million Easy Pieces" was shown to be fiction)

Are field reports different? If so, why? And I won't flame anyone for their opinions... I just want to know.

I know they are good reads. So is science fiction. But Isaac Asimov never asked me for my money so he could take me to Mars.

The question is.... do you believe they are true? Because if they are not, you aren't actually learning ANYTHING useful from them. Anyone can make up a scenario of the way is SHOULD work with women. Fuck, you might as well read the letters in Penthouse Fourm. At least they are well-written and you can jerk off to them.

I think it's obvious where my vote goes.

No.

Who's next?

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Sean Messenger
http://LVo3.com

"War is not the answer. Love is."

Judas Priest, dare I disagree with one of them greats?

If I have a picture available, I will enclose it with the written account of how the interaction unfolded. My single qualm is that sometimes it is difficult to recreate exactly how things happened - hence my decision to get a voice recorder for Christmas . So in my FRs I provide the highlights that registered in my memory, together with speculations on WHY things happened the way they did.

What I'm getting at is while FRs can be

a) fake and
b) not a 100% accurate representation of the sarge

They still provide good insights. Sure, it would be sweet if we could all afford spycam equipment like the rich/lucky MCI bastards, but down here on planet earth... well, FRs are the best we've got. I sure as hell learned a lot from them.

As for never identifying the girl in name - I did that, once.

ace-meets-a-worthy-opponent-vp109079.html

No picture, but a true story. She found it and posted a reply as ruby_tuesday - I thought it was pretty funny

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poland-fr-vt14033.html
here-vp88758.html#88758
here-vp102701.html#102701

On we plough.

Love,

Ace

you'll never be a guru.

you provide proof!

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Sean Messenger
http://LVo3.com

"War is not the answer. Love is."

I have read a few. I dont think its possible to remember so much information. I find it very hard to recall all the information while out in the field! There is definitely some fishy stories going on....or maybe I just have the mind of a goldfish!!

Personally I find its a AMOG battle field!

Sorry to say but my votes NO.

that's another great point. the few i've written have been about single specific details, like one line, or one look, and even then i knew it wasn't quite a "report" of what happened.

it's always just a story, and you will always make yourself look like the hero.

I should add, this is primarily directed at PUA gurus who post reports (including myself).

If you can't prove it, you have no business posting it, because there's no reason for anyone to believe it.

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Sean Messenger
http://LVo3.com

"War is not the answer. Love is."

No problem Sean.. Expect more great stuff from me in the future

i should mention, this is primarily directed at PUA gurus who write reports but have no proof.

if some dude wants to tell stories about the hot chick he banged, well, that's fine. i don't want to listen, but whatever. but when that dude is using that story to get me to buy something he's selling, either prove it, or stfu.

my opinion.

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Sean Messenger
http://LVo3.com

"War is not the answer. Love is."

Well, shit, and there I was, plotting to dethrone Mystery or whoever reigns supreme this year 'Tread softly, Sean, because you tread on my dreams'

Kidding aside, I see two functions of a Field Report. First is value - I've personally gotten tons of lines and interesting concepts from reading other people's FRs - 'lead or leave' or the 3 things routine to name a couple of examples. If the story ain't real - darn, I just wasted a few precious minutes of my life reading fiction. On the bright side, I got some new ideas to field-test - some of them I use to this day, some I've discarded as pure grade-A American bullshit . FRs are an interesting way of exchanging material and ideas, especially seeing as a lot of posts here subscribe to the 'I have this routine I havent field tested, here goes' school of thought.

Second - ah, I'll say it, some posters in here have serious writing talent and reading their stuff, even if it presents a slightly relaxed version of the truth, is goddamn entertaining.

To sum up though, I'd derive more value from a FR with good insights and no pic than an empty 'look at this pic of a HB I banged, yeah shes hot lol'.

To clarify though: a well written FR with a picture is still the ideal, Sean, I'm not trying to disprove gravity here

_________________
poland-fr-vt14033.html
here-vp88758.html#88758
here-vp102701.html#102701

On we plough.

Love,

Ace

anyone relate to this take, or is it just me?

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Sean Messenger
http://LVo3.com

"War is not the answer. Love is."

I guess I could relate, but I've never read a field report. I do however hear the gurus speak, and think I've been missing out for a long time. My general thought process when I hear anyone of them speak is:

He's younger than me.
He's has a better job than I have ever had.
He's way thinner than me.
He's better looking than me.
He's actually known someone who was good with women.

It can be depressing at times, but depression never got me anywhere so I decided it wasn't for me. I guess I'm just a fat, old unemployed dude living in a social vacuum, but I still want to figure this shit out.

I guess you can add stubborn to the list of my assets.

_________________
Artax
Devil's Advocate

"You're only as young as the women you feel."
"I am the Master of my unspoken words, and the Slave to those words that should have remained unsaid."

I think a lot of the reason for dodgy field reports is it is hard to remember details especially when drunk, but if you number close you should remember their name etc. As for the gurus I am always amazed that for people that make a living picking up women there are very few photographs or videos of them actually doing it.

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Pseudonyms: to protect people's identities. Ours and the girls'.

Pics/no pics: I post them if I have them (although I don't really post FRs anymore), but if I don't, it's either because I didn't take a picture or because I want to preserve the anonymity of someone in the pic.

Purpose for posting FRs: to keep a record of your own progress, to get pointers from others on things that could have been done differently, to help out other guys who might want to read about how things get done.

Purpose for reading FRs: to get ideas and inspiration for your own outings.

Granted, there's also a truckload of ego issues that goes into FRs. Back when I used to write them religiously, it kind of messed me up in field. I'd start mentally composing my FR while still in set. Took me out of the Now and messed my shit up.

That's for beginning and mid-level dudes, though. A guru posting FRs for street cred... that's desperation there.

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frame-control-defining-reality-and-bei-vt34530.html

FR's are interpretations of what you think happened--and everyone can interpret it in a different way. You could write pages on how someone used an opener and how the girl reacted to it, so of course they are subjective--and as crazy as some FRs are, I do feel like I have the right to believe them until proven wrong. It's only fair

However, I personally refuse to use FRs as a learning tool. Just because someone was successful using something and wrote about it in an FR doesn't mean it will work for me, you know? What works for one may not work for another.

But reading FRs are definately encouraging

Cheers

_________________
I'm addicted to facing my fears.

I agree with the guy above you can learn theories or one liners from field reports but can't really learn routines or stacks of routines. It is good to know that other people get blown out as much as you do and that if you grina dn carry on you will more than likely get results.

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Tee hee, while I agree you can sometimes doubt the authenticity of LR/FRs, I actually think most of them are true, at least the ones I have read on Charisma Arts forum (which I frequented regularly) and a good deal of the ones here (all by my friend Ace of Spades - I was witness to good part of them).

Take me for example - I am a writer to some extent (depending how you define writer) and I also run two blogs, both of them non-pickup related. I love writing and telling stories, which makes my field reports quite lenghty, but also pretty detailed. I especially enjoy conversations and am pretty good with words, so if some dialogue is funny, interesting or anything, I usuaylly will remember it, even if wording changes.

As for the level of detail - you see, those of us that love to tell stories will not only retain cool things that happened and hilarious dialogues, but also many many little details. See our posts with Ace here: poland-report-vp71854.html . Note how I was asking him about some things that slipped my mind, note also also how our versions vary ever so slightly.

I will try to post some of the FR/LRs from the Charisma Arts forum, just for fun, wonder what your impression on true/false dilemma will be.

Ah, one more thing - when we sarge with Ace, we debrief after each night. We sit long into the morning (or next day, if we split, heh) and go through the events of the night. It's surprising how many things would have slipped our minds if we didn't recall them in this manner. It's actually really fun - "remember how you pulled that blonde? man, her boyfriend was searching the club for you then", "what? she was there with her bf? holy shizzle, I didnt even notice". This also explains how we manage to make it all so detailed.