Yeah I agree also with that I don't believe in using people without being able to provide the time and effort to make a positive impact on them. I know guys that advocate both styles and kinda seek the ego gratification which I believe just shows inner game issues. I think a real man is able to be satisfied with who he is first, and not searching for validation from tons of women to feel better. Me personally I like being able to make people feel better, and show them new perspectives that will hopefully enlighten them. In my sets I'm not drinking I'm sitting down hitting on girls but also having intellectually interesting conversation. I like hot girls, but stupid girls just annoy me. If I can't respect the girl I'm talking with then I don't want to talk with her or have sex with her. The coolest thing about last night was me and my target are talking about psychology, and breaking down the room. We are connecting and describing each other. As I'm breaking her down I'm making these silly little half sarcastic half serious sexually expressive jokes which are basically SOI's to her. It was HOT!!! I broke her down really well had her and her friends kinda spell bound by it, and she started in on me. Dude this girl broke me down amazingly well she took allot of psycholgy in college, and kinda shocked me with her knowledge. As she was describing me from my black boots, to my leather jacket she was building kino. I was going crazy, and when she got to my lips she and me started kissing. That's like the type of stuff I like not every girl can do that I could've gone for a hot girl that's not as smart but where would the conversation go? Probably to a bunch of topics that I find totally trivial and stupid so for me smart is sexy because it makes for a better connection.

_________________
Girls like me why call yourself a Guru or MPUA either you got it or you don't.
www.realpuas.com

I think you hit it dead on.

Man, I would LOVE to read someone publish material about how to seduce SMART girls. You never really hear that one, do ya?


I'm not that smart, but I do know how to talk to smart girls, and you're totally right... smarter is sexier. Perfect tits look nice... but eventually you're gonna do way more talking than fucking, so it's better if she can turn you on with her words and her brain as well. And finding those girls is way tougher than finding the club girl with the bellybutton ring with no intellectual curiousity at all.

You in Charlotte? I love that town. Just did the Avon Walk there last month.

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Sean Messenger
http://LVo3.com

"War is not the answer. Love is."

Yeah man it's a great place to meet people and have fun. If you come back give me a heads up I'm always up for a fun night out.

_________________
Girls like me why call yourself a Guru or MPUA either you got it or you don't.
www.realpuas.com

You'll like this it's a good Joe Rogan clip that kinda illustrates my views on people.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sf8R5ZlDiJg

_________________
Girls like me why call yourself a Guru or MPUA either you got it or you don't.
www.realpuas.com

Joe Rogan is my fucking HERO.

NewsRadio, AND he loves mind-enhancing drugs and knows how the pyramids were built? What a stud.

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Sean Messenger
http://LVo3.com

"War is not the answer. Love is."

I'm 38 in 2 hours. So I must know what I'm talking about.

Or I'm a dirty old man.

Or both.

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Sean Messenger
http://LVo3.com

"War is not the answer. Love is."

First off, as you age, remember this axiom:

"You're only as old as the women you feel!"

Now, I'm fairly certain your beautiful Girlski is less than 38!

My mother always reminds me, "Johnny, you can't keep yourself from growing older, but AT LEAST you can remain immature!"

Just remember that MOST HOLY of the Ten Suggestions: Thou Shalt Not Commit Adulthood!

Besides, you're not TRULY a "Dirty Old Man" until you've been to bed with a girl who's LESS THAN HALF YOUR AGE, where SHE KNOWS IT, YOU KNOW IT, AND SHE KNOWS YOU KNOW IT.

So, as of today, ANY 18 year old you bring to bed could qualify you, presuming you're both up-front about your ages!


Second thing, Erik isn't romantically-involved with his Baby Mama, they are however very dear friends (her words), and he is, I'm told, a very attentive and enthusiastic Daddy. So cut him some slack! If he wants to get his freak on in nightclubs at his age, GOOD FOR HIM! Besides, he's still just a young 'un, if memory serves... barely 37!

The ironic bit is, it was Mystery HIMSELF who coin "Fool's Mate" to describe PRECISELY what happened at the nightclub in Charlotte - ie, meeting a girl and having sex with her immediately thereafter.

His advertised model requires something like 7 hours of interaction, spread over several meetings, before the girl is meant to determine that you're NOT just some "pick up artist", but rather that you ARE actually a cool and worthwhile guy, with honest intentions towards making an ongoing, long-term, quality relationship with her. (Regardless of the truth
)

Personally, I am ONLY interested in connecting with women who are completely comfortable with that I COULD be just a flash-in-the-pan, but that they're willing to explore further - as long as they get laid first.

The irony THERE is that I'm not interested in one-night stands AT ALL, and can't be bothered to bring some girl to bed unless I'm certain I'm going to want to keep in touch with her, and actively return to bed with her from time-to-time on an ongoing basis.

Thirdly, while I agree entirely with your pursuing your current course of finding an ideal partner and continuing to explore further and further into the realms of sexuality which can exist exclusively between yourself, I know that THAT particular model doesn't work FOR ME (as I've expressed earlier in this thread), or for some of Our other friends, and I therefore extrapolate that there are also others for whom it won't provide the satisfaction you're currently experiencing. I appreciate that you bear this in mind when you're dispensing advice on here - it behooves your advancing age, as you approach decrepitude

Will I see you this week? You are always welcome to stay at our place (...and unlike Erik, I DO live with a pair of stunning bisexual women, who love each other as well as me, one of them Asian, the other about-to-become platinum blonde )

Johnny Soporno
Worthy Playboy

So im new to the whole "game" thing and this was a great thread for me to read. I say this solely because I am not learning any of this to sleep with woman or get a girlfriend. I have never had a problem getting laid and have a number to compete with some apuas, my problem is getting over my anxiety to be the person to walk up to a group of strangers and start interacting with them. I'm not looking to just go out and bone like i did a year ago... I'm looking to go out and be the social guy who just doesn't give a fuck. I was the guy who got laid by girls i was introduced to by someone else... whether someone in a class, or at my frat house, or at work. I no longer wanna have to be introduced to meet people because once i meet them i can keep them interested, rather i wanna be the socialite who meets random people and then can introduce MY friends to them. I have a girlfriend right now... if i wasn't 21 and still young and dumb i could tell you she would probably be the one. She is beautiful, has a 3.95 GPA in bioengineering at Penn State (same major as me) and on her way to going to PA school while i go to med school, fucks like a champ, and is one of the most considerate people i have ever met. I am very content with her and hopefully we'll stay content for a long time... if not maybe things will change and i will wanna be the pua everyone dreams to be. You never know where things are going in life and its always good to have the tools that can help you become a better individual. For me becoming a better individual is being more social with people i don't know... to finally get the confidence to walk into a bar, museum, classroom and exude the confidence someone of my caliber should. Sorry for the ranting... its just something i do... i should def learn to use paragraphs. Anyway i hope everyone has a great day.

Great insights, Jay.

Don't worry if she's the one. Enjoy NOW, as much as possible. There's always another woman out there who you can be happy with, so don't worry about needing to make this work forever.

If you can make it good moment by moment, the rest will take care of itself.

_________________
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Sean Messenger
http://LVo3.com

"War is not the answer. Love is."

This thread's a much needed serving of integrity and humanity around here. It's good to see that there are so many decent human beings around here, with admirable goals and motives other than 'i wanna bang a hundred girls in a year because it'll make me feel better.'

Pick-up isn't really a viable substitute for who you are, contrary to the opinions put forth in literature such as 'The Game,' where Strauss portrays himself as changing from a dud into a completely different, fulfilled individual by the book's end. That's bullshit. If you're not happy with yourself, pick-up won't change that. The real reward of properly learning to attract women isn't that it changes you, it's what it lets you show: yourself. And Sean's dead on about the need to genuinely love women: I personally find a lot of lingo in the community as disturbingly dehumanizing, removing the real substance, taking the real worth out of our interactions with women.

The guys who get the most out of all of this are the ones who really like and respect themselves, the ones who put themselves first, because in doing so, they're able to give women the best possible time while being dearly loved themselves. It's not just about getting women to love you, it's about becoming a better lover yourself. And again, it all comes down to your self-worth, how much you love yourself. All the pick-up tools in the world won't get you a fulfilling relationship with a significant other if you're not first happy with yourself first. The opposite is also true as Sean's said: there are many guys out there who have no idea about what pick-up is about, but are able to get and keep women who are really worth it. Now what if you had both? What if you loved yourself to bits, and knew how to properly attract any girl you wanted? Well, then I'd then basically be forced to describe you as fucking unstoppable, and to keep up the awesome work.

And that's where I think there's still a lot of confusion in this community. There are so many guys out there, and I used to be completely guilty of this, who attempt to use pick-up as a shield, as a masking device in order to compensate for their innate belief that they're not worth it. The usual questions that betray such a mentality:

"Omg, this girl just flaked on me! What do I do?"
"So I got the number close, what do I say when I call?"
"My routine backfired and she's mad. How do I recover?"

The more skilled, upper echelon of these guys find themselves with perfectly tested, calibrated routines, consistently, kiss-closing, but for some reason failing to consistently bed girls or even date them for that matter. Pick up will not hide your insecurities about women. Only you can address those issues. I personally used to have a huge problem kissing girls, and thought routines would fix this problem. While they did to an extent, learning to actually grow some and go for it was what fixed things for me in the end.

What Sean said about becoming a better person, and then having the women come is absolutely spot on. Do not use pick-up as an excuse for your personal deficiencies. Do not let it dehumanize you and treat women as objects, as mere conquests. If my post-count wasn't so low, I'd make a thread outlining a list of prerequisites people entering the community should ideally have before beginning to learn material, and if they fell short of the criteria, I'd point them in the right direction. Criteria such as a high level of self worth, a genuine love for women, a solid motive for success, etc. That's what this place should be about. But anyway, I'm going off on a tangent now. Great thread.

Great post. I think that in fact, pickup is a great opportunity if you pay attention, because pickup FORCES you to face your insecurities. The effort to try to cover them with other dudes words and ideas will only lead to you getting what you thought you wanted, and then you have to face that you're still not happy.

Then what?

The journey is about YOU, not her.

_________________
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Sean Messenger
http://LVo3.com

"War is not the answer. Love is."

I think one of the biggest problems with the PU community is that it keeps telling people "ONE-ITES IS BAD, she aint special, there are loads like her" etc etc etc. Now in a lot of cases this is useful, it helps the guy more on and get on with his life. Disconnecting from the outcome is fine, all that sort of thing may help you get a better outcome.
HOWEVER
I am more than happy to admitt i fall head over heels for a girl most of the time. I am sure people know what i mean, when you just see them a few times and they just seem to have a special something you cant put ur finger on.
You know what, i get nevous when i open her and more importantly, I F*CKING LOVE IT. That nervousness makes me know she is worth it, all this "disconnect from the outcome" just makes this into a numbers game, tries to turn people into heartless sex mechines.
If i see a girl who has that special something, i am going to go for it way more. I feel she is worth my time. I dont need to disconect or whatever to stop myself being needy, I know I wont be.
Having that passion, really wanting it is fine - as long as you still maintain your own frame (high value, not needy etc etc). You can still aim for the right outcome and live in the moment.

I think a lot of people go through a point where their lose passion for what they do. They lose the passion to attract women they are attracted to.
Something that I feel is really important:
"You'll never fall in love if you never fall at all"
Stop trying to prevernt yourself falling for a girl, let it happen and when it does, go for it!

If you dont get that buzz, that hope it goes well, then imo opinion the girl isnt worh it.

Madals
p.s. Did what i just type make sense? Is it even relevant to this thread, i cant remember, i just got carried away in the moment!

Totally, dude. It's just like a salesman who believes all sales are exactly the same, and it doesn't really matter.

Bullshit. If you have a great client and that one client covers your nut, you take fucking CARE of that client. You attend to their needs. You keep them happy because they meet your needs. And if you lose them, you mourn the loss appropriately and move on to find someone else who meets your needs.

And you don't do it by nailing 100 new clients with no money, knowhaimean?

_________________
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Sean Messenger
http://LVo3.com

"War is not the answer. Love is."

Seanmessenger,

I'm not sure what your take would be on my ideal of the art of the PUA, but i'll let you know my idea.

I'm definatly a newb to the community, and so am a work in progress. To me, I don't want to constantly hookup with girls. I'm 18, have had a few hookups already, and I just don't really enjoy it as much, as in it doesn't fulfill me.

In my past, I have lost girlfriends and prospects because I think I am too "nice", don't demonstrate myself as a catch at equal or higher level then her...

To me, I am learning this not to hookup with girls etc, but up to the point where I get her number, I think this information can be helpful. I am flumoxed about what to do after I get her number, because where "the game" continues, is that you have to use tactics etc to have sex with her.

Like I said, I don't want that necessarily, but I want to have the courage and strength to keep my own value up, don't let her become dominant. I'm not sure if this is making any sense, but I have gotten walked over like an AFC for my entire life by girlfriends, because they lose interest, i'm just too nice sometimes.

This is something i've been debating, because its really hard to find help with this. Most of the guys around here are going for the F close, and I don't think I should employ the same tactics to pursue a girl with 3rd and 4th dates as an F - close. However, I do things like how long to wait to call etc might be helpful. I just don't know where to look to information past the K/# close.

I am sure as a college student I will use the skills and tools I learn to have an F- close, but I definatly want(even as a freshman, in a fraternity) to be able to have relationships. I feel that this information provided from PUA to me has now completely erased everything I ever thought of dating. I'm not sure if I can even function correctly as a boyfriend should, because while I am suppose to be supportive and caring, looking ahead it worries me a bit that i'd still be throwing negs etc, at times when I need to be caring and compassionate. So i'm a bit confused by the whole thing internally

_________________
~Kevin~

Kevin,

thanks for the letter. I hear you, and can only tell you my experience.

i learned things from DYD and David Deida that really helped me get out of my shell and meet women, and help understand relationships.

I never learned anything from PUAs (to this day, I've never even seen a pickup product) that was useful.


Sad, but true. Some of the things I heard about and tried actually made me worse at meeting women (like negs), and everything I heard in pickup made me waaaaay worse at getting and keeping a happy girlfriend.

If you want a cool girlfriend, be very very very selective about who you learn from, and first of all, make damn sure that they are living what you want as well. if you want to be a celebrity and a tv star who bangs bubbleheads, by all means, learn from Mystery. but if you want something else, you have to find a different source... and it's not easy to find.

anyone who wants to learn how to pick up drunk girls at bars and have sex quick, classic PUA stuff can help. But do not make the mistake of thinking that will help you in any way to find a great girlfriend. It will help you meet girls, and also make very sure that you lose them fast.

want to learn how to not get walked over by girls? Don't learn pickup. learn what it means for you to be a man INDEPENDENT of women first. otherwise you are still defining yourself by the way women react to you.

_________________
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Sean Messenger
http://LVo3.com

"War is not the answer. Love is."