It is because of investment. He will invest time, effort, and emotion into her and anything that you invest in, you value more. Think about it this way...if you saved up for 5 years to get your dream car and then the day after you bought it you got a free one, which one would you value more? The one you saved up for of course...you have a connection with it because you invested time and effort into it.

If the girl just approaches the guy and lays her number and her body out there on a silver platter (literally or figuratively) then it is too easy. The guy didn't really have to do anything and thus he didn't invest anything for her and thus, he isn't attached to her. She has to appear as an ATTAINABLE challenge. If she appears to be too much of a challenge, the guy will lose interest.

Thanks guys. Taking the whole debate together it adds up to a neat theory. I will summarise your input, post it tomorrow & give her this as part of her christmas box. Knowledge is the greatest gift of all!

Please continue to add to this thread & critique my summary once posted.

Just 1 thing: Chief, I didn't understand when you said 'The feminine wants to be opened up as light' please elucidate.

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"who is better superman or SPAM" cinnamon used it in the chatroom and oh my lordy it is a great opener as long as you can stack or you will end up talking about superheroes for an hour

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Now I feel like a dumbass, of course it makes perfect sense now.

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Artax
Devil's Advocate

"You're only as young as the women you feel."
"I am the Master of my unspoken words, and the Slave to those words that should have remained unsaid."

I think I see the idea now. Not sure I agree with it, but I get it.

Here's the thing: if you want a guy attached to you, making him work harder for your affection won't necessarily be what's doing the job. It's not that working harder for something makes you appreciate it more; it's that people will work harder for things they want.

Sooo, I guess this would make sense if you're operating from a hardcore screening frame. A dude who wants a relationship will stick around and continue with the girl even if she's not making things easy for him. That dude would also be happy in a relationship if the girl just admitted a crush on him or something, and would stay with the girl even if they slept together on the first night. Guy who's just looking for an ONS, on the other hand, is playing a numbers game and won't necessarily put as much in. He'll move on to another target before he'll invest that much.

So from that perspective, it's not a matter of making the guy do more in order to get him invested; it's a matter of seeing who's willing to invest. Same action, different reason, works either way.

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It makes sense to me, but I'm still having trouble explaining this David Deida stuff to others. I'm currently studying his work. If you want to look into it yourself, check out his book, "The Way of the Superior Man." Apparently the feminine is light somehow.

I slightly disagree with some of the responses above. I have had guys stare me down and despite me eye contact and smiles will never approach. You might be thinking well if he cant approach then he is not worth it. I slightly disagree with this and I'll explain why: Most guys suck at reading body language and most guys suck at breaking the ice. I think as a female you CAN open and get great results without coming off as needy. The best way for a female to open is through a compliment. After that its up to the guy to keep the conversation going or reopen the girl. If he cannot do that then she should walk away. You can still "chase" the guy while giving the impression that he is chasing you.

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"To Give anything less than your best is to sacrifice the gift" -Prefontaine

Not a PUA just a girl offering my opinions/advice

^This. Guys usually can't tell when a girl is interested in them. This is why we have lists of IOIs that we memorize; because we have no idea how else we're supposed to know this stuff. Because girls certainly aren't going to just come out and tell us.

Hey girls: you know how you can tell, really fast, if a guy is interested in you by the way he looks at you, talks to you, etc? Most guys can't figure that out with girls. You could be throwing him every piece of flirty body language in the book, but unless he's learned what it means somehow, or you just come right out and tell him or do something really obvious like start making out with him, he won't know that you're interested in him.

I'd say that ninety percent of the time that a girl tries to "pick up" a guy and fails, it's because the guy didn't know she was interested. The girl may have thought she was making it obvious as hell, but the guy seriously didn't know.

Hell, I've had girls ask me if I have a girlfriend after just meeting them. I didn't realize they were interested until someone told me that that's what it meant. I just thought they were looking for information. If I'dda known that back in the day, I wouldn't need to study pickup.

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Get the guy to open you: EC, break EC, EC, break EC, smile
As you know this usually doesn't work. Guys suck at reading body language and need lists of IOIs before they do.
To approach the guy: Approach at an angle, and open over your shoulder.
1. Situational (indirect). 'Hi. What time is this place open till / Who is the DJ tonight / Who is this track by?' etc.

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2. Opinion / Question (indirect). 'Hi. I need a male opinion...' then start screening, or 'Hi' then a screening question.
3. Intruder only (neutral). 'Hi' then leave it to him to continue the conversation.
4. Observational (direct). 'Hi. I like your hair/shirt' etc. or 'You should wear your hair/scarf/hat like this...that's better.'
3 and 4 are probably the best types of opener for you.

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I don't know where where your friend goes to meet guys. But if she is as hot as you say, she may want to go to social gatherings. People mingle and move about socially a lot better there. And you don't have the social restraints as you do in a bar. It also makes things easier for guys to approach your friend as well as they are more likely to feel at ease in such settings.

At the same time if there is no "end" in sight for the guy, he will stop and move on to the next thing. Basically don't play to hard to get and don't lead on the guy either. Yes there are guys that won't stop no matter what. But I would think for most guys if the girl is playing to hard to get they will move on.

But as far as investments goes. For me the girl has to show she is worthy of me investing my time, money, energy, and emotions in her for me to purse her. As I just don't invest that stuff into any girl that shows interest in me.

You actually don't really need to memorize such things. But more learn how to read body language.
I would say when a girl tries to "pick up" a guy she fails for two reasons and not just one. The first reason she fails is as you said most guys don't have a clue the girl was showing interest in them. The other reason is that most girls are way to subtle in their messages.

After reading through some of this, it is apparent why guys are so confused. The women who post here don't even agree, and they're asking about what we want!?!

When you get lost come back to the (very) basics. Guys want the approval of women. If you like him show you approve of him. When you can support his side of a discussion, compliment his choices, and his intelligence when appropriate. Try not to side against him as much as possible.

If you find it hard to do so then you and he aren't right together. When you say and do things that show your disapproval it turns him off. The effect is magnified if you do so in front of others. The more things you find about him that you approve of then the more likely you two will be compatible. Every time you act disapproving you reinforce in his mind that you aren't the one he's looking for. It's very simple, but hard to do. Some people are just naturally argumentative, it hurts them more than it helps them.

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Artax
Devil's Advocate

"You're only as young as the women you feel."
"I am the Master of my unspoken words, and the Slave to those words that should have remained unsaid."

Don't worry about the approach being a demonstration of interest. A DOI doesn't mean you are interested in sex, only that they are interested in meeting the target. Any man who thinks less of you is not worth your time (another fool screened, you winner!)
Once the social hook point is reached move into a lock-in position. This way he will look like he is gaming you.

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