hey man, where can i get this book? much appreciation homes.

I like Fair Rose`s point that MM is aimed at a certain calibre of women, not everyone can face them or even want to.
Yes some men just want to use women, maybe they had a bad role model or experience that gave them that desire.
You cant say any way is wrong, its always going to be subjective/relative to the mental state of the person how they use the information.

I would love to come out with some wit on this subject, but have to just waffle on in my way
for me Erik is my biggest influence , why - because I saw his VH1 series earlier this year. That was a catalyst for me, being a AFC for a long time from the things I have realized about myself. These realizations have only been seen because of a TV program, most people will never get to watch the really important stuff in this world due to syncronicity of life.
A favourite qoute of mine is " when the student is ready the master/teacher will appear".
Neil Strauss is a person I only knew about after I looked PUA up.
I freely admit to AA and alot of other things like OneItis etc even though I have been in some odd situations which should have helped, only reading others FRs and their situations/solutions that I feel a change in me. Its enough to break some of these barriers in myself (dont ask how old I am , makes me feel creepy lol) and hopefully be a better person.
Any AFC needs some structure to use while the mind is remolded, it all depends what influences the student is under. Social structure creates the monsters or heros, if you walk in the dirt some is gonna stick (been there too) and can be near impossible without others to show you the way out to a better life.
Does it matter? how the students appears infront of you or how they leave you?
J1fclown

You're only proving my point for me. The simple fact that you label these girls as "HB10s" and not just girls that you're really attracted to is a perfect example of how much this stuff has damaged your thought process. As is the fact that you see those girls as manipulative rather than just trying to do the best they know how and being just as confused as you.

I just came out of a weekend workshop with Sean Messenger where we get to sit there with real live girls in a classroom environment and interact in flirtatious and sexually open excercises; not actual sex or even kissing, but practicing all the stuff leading up to it, almost kissing and some other pretty risque things. We also spend a lot of time talking about why men do the things they do and women do the things they do. The girls always say things that absolutely blow my mind, because they are WAY WAY WAAAAAAAY more unsure about themselves and afraid of the whole dating/club scene. All the things that guy in the pickup community say are manipulative and bitchy are 95% of the time just defense mechanisms and coping mechanisms, not actually intentional tricks.

Ever notice how girls will do some really flirty eye contact with you? Things like looking down really shyly and then glancing up at you for just a split second before looking down again. Staring you straight in the eyes the whole time they are drinking from a glass or putting on their jacket, even though it's much more natural to look at what you're doing. The way they look at you out of the corner of their eye and then glance away real quick, or glance at your crotch and then away quickly. Those are all unconscious things, yet we tend to think they are planned out and manipulative ways of seducing us.

Mystery encourages the thinking that there is a battle of the sexes and that's not the case. We're all confused, we're all trying to figure each other AND ourselves out. No one is trying to manipulate you and there's no such thing as an HB10 and especially no HB11s. That shit is all bullshit that is being fed to you in order to make you feel like you need to buy his product in order to succeed. It's a fucking marketing ploy! I've taken business classes, psychology, advertising and various other classes that all say the same stuff about making your target market feel you need to buy your product because if you don't you won't be able to succeed and that's exactly what Erik has done. He's just a really good salesman and has pulled the wool over your eyes!

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"The 'Brick Walls' are there to allow you to prove how badly you want something!" ~ Randy Pausch

~ Rye

style does a lot for the community, but you can't forget that a lot of his stuff originally came from mystery.

i've read some of style's annihilation method, and its interesting but in my opinion its not nearly as innovative as mystery method.
i think that is a ridiculous statement

i love ya, but sometimes i think the MM bashing around here is getting outa hand. i understand that from a business perspective some of us are pushing a "natural" revoluion in the PUA community, and thats fine. i actually think its a great thing and will make people better PUA's. but if we are gonna sit here and say MM is bullshit, i think this site will lose a lot of credibility within the community. statements like that are not productive for anyone.

MM is NOT bullshit.

trust me... you don't want to push MM advocates like myself away from this site, and to a more "MM friendly" site. I chose this as my stomping ground because i thought it was open to all different types of methods, and looks at the positives and negatives of each. if i was wrong about that, then let me know, because this isn't the place for me anymore.

For the last time Rye... I know what you mean! I agree with you 100% But does not change what I am talking about. I am not talking about REALITY. I am talking about LIFESTYLE.


Rye I am currently in the United States Navy and have a brother who is training to become a US Navy SEAL (who are by far the toughest motherfuckers on the face of this planet).

About a month ago I was chillin' at Mehow's Assisstant (Vanessa's) condo. Now this is a 20 year old cuban girl who just flew in on the weekend to do the interview (I was being interviewed for some product), and who was going to the Virgin Islands on vacation. This was on a Wednesday in the middle of the week! During a Recession! I work hard every single day, and everything you say is valid... but a Hot Babe 10 is a Hot Babe 10. There are women out there that don't live in the reality you and I speak of. I'm not discrediting anything you're saying but that does not change the fact that we are both right. I am not telling anyone to buy a whole bunch of products... no. I am just saying if, as a man, you want a Super Model, Celeberity, A-List whatever (because we created these labels) then purchase The Mystery Method. Period.


p.s.

I am not labeling these girls 10s because I am REALLY attracted to them. I label them 10s because they have very high replication value (aesthetic beauty may lead to healthy lineage, low birth defects, and socially aligned offspring). More then anything esle, they have dominant congruent genes. I am not "brainwashed". I just live in Southern California.

I didn't say the MM is bullshit, I said the M3 model is bullshit. It doesn't work like that and I explained that quite clearly in response to Madals post. If you engage in flirty eye contact with a girl before you talk to her, then you're engaged in seduction before anything else because eye contact is a form of seduction. If you think you can possibly attract a girl that isn't comfortable with you, then you're insane. No girl will become attracted to a guy that she isn't comfortable with to a certain extent and that defies the M3 model plain and simple.

I just think the way he has phrased everything he does it poor. He wrote it from the perspective of someone that is angry at women (read The Game if you don't agree and take note of the tantrums he throws regarding how evil women are) and essentially unhappy with himself, so he is trying to gain validation and control. Not everyone is coming from that place, but many people that follow what he teaches end up in that place; hell I almost did and I love women and don't think they're manipulative at all, they're just as confused as us, but he almost had me thinking like he does.

As far as needing to be an asshole to get bitches, I just don't understand why you would want to have anything to do with anyone you consider a bitch. Sure there's girls that have trouble letting their shields down and that are emotionally unavailable, but I manage to get them just fine without being an asshole. I have some of the hottest girls around come to me because I make them feel safe, accepted and appreciated without being a dick to them at all. These girls are strippers, pornstars, actresses, models, nude models, teachers, nurses and various other professions. Hell I don't even go after girls in the skin trade, yet when they encounter me they feel safe around me and like the fact that I treat them like human beings. Johnny Soporno is probably the most successful man on the planet with girls in those lines of work and he is one of the nicest people I have ever met. Your theory is wrong. You don't HAVE to be an asshole, you just choose to be one because that's what you've been told is the only way and again I tell you that that is damaging.

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"The 'Brick Walls' are there to allow you to prove how badly you want something!" ~ Randy Pausch

~ Rye

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Back, starting over as of 2012.

Since when was it a rule to have morals in pick-up? I don't think you get brownie points for loving every woman you meet either.

Honestly, if it wasn't for Mystery or Neil, this community wouldn't have been exposed and the manipulative ones wouldn't be shunned by an iron curtain by this community. Back in the day it was raw, brutal material and posts. No fluffing around on this "We're all good men, we have good intentions and are little fairies on a quest to build a lifestyle".

It was raw, and it was powerful. This Community's past intention was to get the woman of your dreams and plow through any that you wanted, without hiding behind a facade. Last time I checked women don't get a free pass out of getting hurt. Shit happens. Shit happened to me and if you guys remember, shit happened to you too. If I don't like a girl, well have mercy on her soul.

It's total horseshit to say you love every woman. Nobody loves Hussie Strumpets and those fat annoying ones that think they're hot or even the loud mouthed hot ones that blab about absolutely nothing. If your goal is to plow through women, I say go for it.

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I'm addicted to facing my fears.

I don't think its about rules I think its about having a clear cut boundary for who you are, what your morals are and where your going and who your going with. Because if you ultimately don't have that knowledge and control it comes back to bite you very hard. Instructors talk about it but just like the illusive obvious, you cant see it until you make a full circle!

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Back, starting over as of 2012.

Sorry Chico, I got no morales when it comes to women that I dont know or care about.

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I'm addicted to facing my fears.

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Back, starting over as of 2012.

Yeah i agree, i used mystery method word for word at one point( i sounded so slimy) but a person who really wants it will realize that quick fixes and a hell of alot of tecniques just aren't going to cut it, because it won't really work as well, well i realized thats its inside out. Though mystery was one of my role models, i think he got to where he is because he had a big "why", and so that gives starters like me a role model. I don't know where the hell i'm going with this but my vote goes to neil because he gave me a perception i've never knew existed. And is it just me or was reading "the mystery method" book like reading a dictionary? lol. I enjoy following rober greenes advice and zans

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"Crushing requires a crushing mood" Miyamoto Musashi

hahaha man thats a hell of a thing to say, that was balls deep awesome. props to you, you sound like a rake. But all in all, i do believe a man chooses his life, not life chooses a man, so that being said, i think a man is able to honestly like any woman, though he might not feel it, he won't listen to his feelings, he'll listen to what he wants. I agree with you that suduction is built on manipulative stuff, and there is nothing wrong with it, but theres a price to pay for bad principles, and manipulative stuff will bite you in the ass. I do manipulative stuff myself but nothing that'll hurt a girl in the long run, that just doesn't roll with me

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"Crushing requires a crushing mood" Miyamoto Musashi

Rye, while you dont agree with a lot of the MM stuff do you think it has helped some people?
Think of it in another way, nucular wepons. They are awful imo and should not still be around today, however, WW2 stoped because of them. So although long term they are bad, they did so much good in their time.

The mm is the same, when used at the right time (to give confidence to total AFC's) then it is good; which you said you agree with. Everything in this world is bad if used wrongly. Should the MM be blamed for these manipulative people, or would these people have found a way to be creepy without it?