I see your point but you are makng a crucial error in your reasoning...the number one rule of psychology is that you don't make causal relations between factors that you cannot manipulate in an experiment. Your argument that height is not a valid indicator of health and survival is the same as me saying it is a valid indicator. There is no way to prove that taller males are more healthy which is a good indicator of reproduction. It can be said that maybe height is a bilogical indicator of attraction and that SOCIETY has established a norm that shorter guys can be good suitors to by demonstrating other behaviors to compensate for their height (i.e. personality, charisma, money etc...) There is no way to prove it either way....not yet anyway. Studies show that anytime someone is above you looking down on you, they demonstrate dominance....it is natural for the person below to feel threatened--even if the person is shorter than you and standing on crates to make him/her taller.

I see what you mean though, you are basing it off your personal experience and your success even though you are shorter. The science hasn't explored the concept of making up for height based on other qualities because it can't be tested but I can say from my personal experience that if I see a guy sitting down and I find him attractive and when he stands he is just as tall if not shorter than me, some of that attraction goes away. But it is impossible to say whether that is a social or biological construct. And a lot of time, what seems to be logical is actually not supported when it is actually tested.

Taller men also have more power in society due to their height. Primary because they stand out more physically and be more noticeable. And this does deal with attraction because alpha males are leaders and leaders have power. Yes one can say tall guys are "leaders" by default, but if a tall guy does not use his hight correctly then he is only a leader until people see that he does not "command" those around him.

Jurupa you mentioned the discussion we had in another thread about height and I replied along the same lines that Chief did. If you have a height advantage, and you do, then use it when gaming. It is not a disadvantage unless you make NBA players look stumpy.

For PUA's without the height, it is all mindset. I am, on a good day, 5'8". I have had women tell me that they look for tall men (with bodies resembling that of some Greek god), but when I really got into it with them they realized that they were actually looking for a man who could protect and lead them through life. If Mini-Me, Tom Cruise, and Napoleon Bonaparte all got laid like the rockstars they are, then there's no reason why any other man couldn't.

PUA's analyze the intricacies of human behavior and instinct, specifically that of women, and shape themselves to be the most desirable men that they can be with what they have. As such, they need not worry about factors outside of their control.

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I'm not debating whether or not shorter guys can compete with taller guys. It is obvious that height is not the only factor. And that what some may lack in height, make up for in different aspects which make them just as suitable if not more so than tall guys. I'm just saying, some women do have reservations about shorter men and it takes more convinceing (through your personality) to make them overlook the height issue they may have.

I disagree with the above statement. I just think its outdated. Back in the old days men went for women that were healthy enough to carry their offspring. They had pale skin (showing that they didnt work in the fields), they were fatter, bigger child bearing hips, etc. That was considered attractive.

Obviously that's not the case today.

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"To Give anything less than your best is to sacrifice the gift" -Prefontaine

Not a PUA just a girl offering my opinions/advice

Not true Meg. We don't look for exactly the same signs of health, but we do still look for signs of health. If you think about it, we have merely adapted what our idea of a healthy looking person is.

We no longer look for really pale women because that means they don't go outside and we now consider physical activity outside to be healthy. We no longer look for plump women because they are considered lazy and unhealthy (fat as you put it); rather than when it used to be a sign that they ate enough it now shows a lack of physical activity and possibly eating un-nutritious foods. We like thin and fit women because they are getting enough exercise and so they have stamina and will be able to keep up with the kids as well as bare the children to term and give birth without complications. Things that we look for (albeit even more subconsciously than the other things mentioned) are shiny hair, good complexion, eye sight, posture, tongue and lip colour, and all sorts of other things that are signs of good health.

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"The 'Brick Walls' are there to allow you to prove how badly you want something!" ~ Randy Pausch

~ Rye

Most of what Bonita has written I agree with, but I have yet to meet a woman who can't get sex if she really wants it.

Some of the "Myths" should start with the word ALL to make them true. Some women are comfortable in heels or tiny little dresses. Would they be more comfortable in sweats maybe, but if they were in a night club would they be more comfortable in sweats? Physically yeah, socially I doubt it. Some things are relative.

Oh yeah, not all women have a sense of humor, and many women don't have a sense of humor all the time.

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Artax
Devil's Advocate

"You're only as young as the women you feel."
"I am the Master of my unspoken words, and the Slave to those words that should have remained unsaid."

To an extent I agree. I guess what I am getting at is that society plays a larger role.

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"To Give anything less than your best is to sacrifice the gift" -Prefontaine

Not a PUA just a girl offering my opinions/advice