Women don't want bad/cheesy guys to approach them. And they are going to shit test you to make sure you aren't one of those guys so they don't have to waste their time. Some women see a fair amount of these type of guys and it gets annoying after a while. I basically have an informal rule at a bar/club...If a guy approaches me at a bar and asks if I am having fun/if I come here often I oblige the question and move on. Every guy that has ever approached me with that has been a total dull and I don't want to waste my time when I already know how it is going to turn out. He has to do something very special very quickly to reverse his fate in that case.

Women love sex! It feels good for us too! lol Okay so here is the issue with having sex with male friends. We don't want to be perceived as sluts because the more sexual partners women have, the sluttier they are...not like with men who are perceived as gods. So a woman is going to be more cautious about who she sleeps with and a "friends with benefits" relationship just screams SLUT to everyone.

If a woman is walking down the street and someone whistles at her, she will likely respond with a scowl and some remark like "perv" or something like that. Either she found you way unattractive and doesn't want you looking at her like that or if you are attractive, she is socially programmed not to accept the compliment. Women are suppose to be modest and discreet so she is going to act like she didn't enjoy the comment or gesture and she may even tell her friends what a jerk he was...but deep down, that made her feel good about herself...and she won't tell her friends that. In the bar/club...once again it is the same story as before....she is screening you to make sure you are worth her time because talking to someone you aren't interested in at all is not fun....and why would she willingly agree to something that isn't fun? So two things: we are told to be modest and she is testing you to make sure you are being genuine bc guys who want an easy lay will give up at a challenge.

Wrong! Women probably have MORE fear. I don't know what it is like to be a man and have to approach a woman, but think about it this way...more men overcome the fear of talking to women than the other way around. Not many women approach men because they are afraid of the social implications and the fear of rejection. Women live in a social world and if they are rejected by someone they lose status in that social world. Plus women take almost everything personally. So if a man shuts us down we think it is because we are ugly, fat, boring, etc.... In reality, the girl might not be the best looking girl in the bunch, but she definitely isnt a 2....but that rejection makes her think she is a 2 (unless she has awesome self-esteem and can bounce back--like me ha)

The more dolled up a girl is, prob the more self-conscious she is. Women get all dolled up for men and the makeup and such is a cover-up (literally) because we don't think guys would be interested in us with no makeup--not initially anyway. I mean, come on...you notice that playboy bunny type dressed in the little red dress. We see you stare, we hear you talk. Now, you may not settle down with her, but you def would want to sleep with her...but women don't make that distinction. Even if we are consciously aware that you only want to sleep with her and not date her, we still get jealous because women love attention! So it isn't so much about how we actually look, rather it is how we look in comparison to others that makes us more or less self-conscious. But a pretty girl will always have to wonder if you like her for her personality as well as her looks or if you are just trying to get in her pants.

HAHAHA....this myth is true boy [/quote]

Well put. It's funny that when I look back at the few relationships I've had over the years that evolved into LTRs, I subconsciously did take the lead (although I have no clue how I did it...). I suppose the key is that this position is something one has to earn; a woman won't just put her faith in just anyone...
I totally hear you about the idea that a lack of choice limits women. My thoughts were more along the lines where the man has chosen to approach a particular woman: at that point - within the context of that relationship - she is the one with the power to accept or reject, and it's that power that can totally mess with the minds of guys like me... However, your point about women having fewer options really hit me and got me thinking: by being limited in the number of guys she can choose to have a relationship with, she may feel forced to relinquish a lot of the control within the relationships themselves, knowing that if she blows it, it could be a long time before someone else comes along. It helps explain why we always see situations where incredible women end up with complete assholes. On the guy's side, I think your point also gives another argument against oneitis: if a guy wilfully gives up his natural ability to choose among women, he is giving up one of his few means to exert control in the early stages of a relationship.

Anyhow, this is all cool stuff, but damn, I'm thinking to hard for a Friday afternoon This is a really enjoyable thread. Great work! I'm giving it 5 thumbs up

That is where PU comes in....a skilled PUA creates so much attraction that it never crosses her mind to reject him
good point!

Sadly Bonita, almost all the the things that you have stated "society" thinks girls shouldn't do, is bullshit. That's purely what women perceive and you being a woman, fall into that catagory. Heck half of those myths are merely perpetuated because women buy into them themselves and aren't "man enough" to do what they want. Hell us guys would appreciate it if women did what they wanted and approached who they wanted, we have absolutely nothing at all against that. If guys want it and women want it, then who is this "society" we keep talking about? It's merely people fooling themselves into accepting limiting beliefs that they expect other people to hold. Free your mind and just say "fuck it!".

Some of the complaints I hear most often from men, are that women don't approach men and that women won't sleep with guys they like, just because they are afraid of looking like sluts. We aren't worried about you looking like sluts, hell we love sluts! Any secure man won't even label a girl that sleeps with guys she likes as a slut! We'll say she's empowered!

It's also a crock of shit that women are expected to be happy and please the people around them. I'm sorry, but c'mon, that's expected of everyone! I'm constantly happy and in a positive mood, but when I mention that a teacher is pissing me off cause of the way she runs the class, people start riding me for always being negative. Men are expected to be in a good mood just as much as women, lest we infect others with our poor tempers. We're supposed to be fixing problems and taking care of people cause we're the protectors. You're buying into the whole battle of the sexes mentality too much darlin, you gotta just let it go and realise we're all the same.

I like this thread, I really do, it's good stuff, but I was hoping it would be more about how we're all equal and less about how we misunderstand why we're different. Let's end this stupid battle of the sexes concept, it's fucktarded and only creates negative mojo that ends up perpetuating itself. I like my mojo to be pumpin instead!

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"The 'Brick Walls' are there to allow you to prove how badly you want something!" ~ Randy Pausch

~ Rye

I've seen this statistic a few times. What do you think about it?

something like 83% of men want women to make the first move.

I know I used to want that and I guess a part of me still does even though I know its very unlikely to happen.

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Men fall in love with their eyes. Women fall in love with their ears.

My dearest Rye Rye...a wise person once told me, "It isn't what is true that matters, it is what we perceive to be true that matters."

That has been one of the most influential things someone has ever said to me. For instance, a girl is arguing with her friend because she THOUGHT her friend was mad at her. Her friend says "I was never mad at you"...but that doesn't change the situation and the girl's feelings. Like I said, it doesn't matter what is true, it matters what we perceive is true. Some women are starting to wise up, but some still PERCEIVE that it is not okay to approach men. I cannot change all of their opinions, I can merely explain the dynamics at hand.



Also, I don't think that memo has been given to women...maybe you should send that out. haha....i think the issue is really that men can sleep with women they think are hot and it is ok, but women can't sleep with a guy just bc he is hot (with no emotional connection) because then she is perceived as a slut. She doesn't REALLY like him, and that is the difference between guys and girls....though I will admit much of the name calling is committed by girls. [/quote]

I'd say it does change things a bit. The girl that is upset is wrong and she needs to re-evaluate why she felt that way and correct those feelings. I feel that women need to re-evaluate why they feel the way they do about most of those myths and correct those feelings, because it isn't men that are the main reason they are being perpetuated, it is women. We both know that women are far worse for talking shit about each other than the men are and that's where most of this stuff comes from, a fear of other women saying negative things.

Next time a girl starts talking shit about another girl that enjoys having sex with guys she is interested in, slap the bitch! She'll make some dumb comment about how she's just a slut and has no self respect...because she's doing what she enjoys and not what other people tell her she should be doing....huh?

Men love sexually empowered women SO MUCH, that we even have favorite porn stars! Yeah, that's right! I have talked to hundreds of guys about porn (yeah, we're dirty, disgusting, despicable men, but hell women love porn too and you guys would be a lot more open and unrepressed if you were willing to talk about it too) and almost every guy I've talked to for more than a few minutes has expressed some sort of favoritism for a particular performer. Oh and it's not just the hottest ones. The girls that get tons of fans and rise through the ranks are the ones that do it cause they enjoy it, not just cause they're hot. Men LOVE women that are open about loving sex.

Now I'm not saying go around announcing to everyone how much you like sex, cause then they'll get the wrong impression about you. But don't be afraid to engage in it with whoever turns your crank, cause men will only respect you more for it. Be willing to openly discuss it, cause we'll respect you more for it. A girl that is too insecure and uptight to talk about sex with me on a "date" is one that I expect to be too repressed to fully enjoy it when we do have it. Please tell me about what you love a guy to do, what you love to do, what the best thing you've ever had done to you was, etc. I loved it when a girl I was with started talking about how "big" the biggest guy she'd ever been with was and how many orgasms she'd had as a result.

Women and men are just as bad at not doing what the other wants. Men are terrible at doing what they should with women, which is why they've developed "pickup". Women are just as aweful at doing like men desire, which is again why men have had to force themselves to take the lead and learn everything. I think women need this stuff just as much as men, not any more or any less. All these myths are equally true about men from a females perspective from what I've learned. Girls expect men to approach them because they figure that's what they're supposed to do and it should be easy for them. That's merely one myth, but they all transfer over, so we've got to collectively realise this is bullshit.

When I commented on the fact that as a girl you are perceiving things as such and commenting on things from that standpoint, what I really meant to say (and I appologize, cause I phrased it poorly), is that I hope you learn from these fallacies. They're not myths, they're fallacies based upon assumptions we have made about the opposite sex. My hope is that as an enlightened woman, you appreciate the ludicrousy of these statements and stop believing in them, as well as hopefully smacking some sense into your female friends; for their benefit, as well as that of the men they encounter. All of those fallacies can simply be made into "sticking points" that need to be overcome and are a great starting place for anyone to improve their attraction skills.

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"The 'Brick Walls' are there to allow you to prove how badly you want something!" ~ Randy Pausch

~ Rye

Ever heard of the 80/20 rule? 20 percent of the men have sex with 80 percent of the women or something like that.

Does it surprise you that over 80% of men are beta males who don't approach? Doesn't surprise me one bit. If everyone was alpha, who'd be left to do the bitch work to help society run smoothly?

I'm sorry... This isn't a myth question but I wanted to ask you Bonita anyways... Sorry if no one else feels there is value in this question, but I think there is a lot..

I've noticed that there is a fine line to be walked when being honest with girls... Guys are more direct and sometimes honesty comes out a little bit.. shall we say... dickheadish?

Its seems to be a catch 22- I have two best friends that are girls, and when they ask me my opinion... they get mad at me for being honest! Why should I lie, I have no horse in this race (anymore )!

So heres the question.. To lie or not to lie? My default mode has become to tell them what I think they want to hear. I'm a pretty bad liar tho and I feel bad for being ingenuous. It beats having them tell me they hate me tho, Id get the silent SPAM too! lol It is kind of cute however. Its hard to win with these silly girls!

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Make Moves

Swoop

Rye I totally agree but that is only because that is what a myth is. It is a belief that has no basis in fact. Though women may FEEL this way, it is only because they perceive a stigma that doesn't really exist anymore. I totally agree with you that it is all BS, but it is rather utopian to believe that one person can change these long-standing myths. It will take time and many people.

I say it is always better to tell the truth than to lie. If they found out you lied, not only will they be mad that you don't agree with them, but they will be mad that you lied to them too. So instead of being in trouble about one thing, they are mad at you for two reasons.

Now it goes without saying that it is stupid of these girls to be mad for you telling the truth. But keep in mind, that even if you are telling the blatant truth, you can still phrase it nicely so you won't hurt people's feelings. What kind of lies are you talking about? Is it them asking if they look okay in their jeans or what? I'm not going to lie, sometimes white lies are just easier to save time and effort. So if someone says "omg I hate that teaher" and you don't feel the same way, it is just easier to keep your mouth shut bc there are no ramifications for lying there. But use your best judgement there and when in doubt just be truthful.

No this doesn't surprise me one bit either. Its becoming easier and easier for people to become beta. People can hide behind computers and texting and technology in general.

Because we have increasing technology we are losing that social interaction. That is why this community got started. To give back what people started losing out on because they were never put into the situation enough times to actually learn it themselves.

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Men fall in love with their eyes. Women fall in love with their ears.

I like to believe that if I go around acting like reality is the way it should be and hold my values and beliefs in line with that (as long as it isn't going to hurt me in any way) then it affects the people around me and they in turn affect the people around them. I figure there's no point in giving up simply because the problem is of a far greater scale than I can even wrap my feable brain around, because then there's not even the slightest chance things will change. If however I act as if these myths are a whole lot of BS, then people around me realise it is true and respond in favorable ways. It's gotta start somewhere, so why not with us? The more we spread these concepts around, the more people that we've affected spread them around and eventually we'll convert the whole world.

Idealist? Perhaps. Possible? Definitely.

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"The 'Brick Walls' are there to allow you to prove how badly you want something!" ~ Randy Pausch

~ Rye

Yes tight clothes gets our attention. But then why do you girls get mad or give us disgusting looks when we take a look at what your showing off? I can see from a girls view point that it becomes a Catch 22, but I think as a girl step back and saw how us guys view such girls wearing such things, you would change your clothes.

The main reason I say this is because I hear girls all the time they don't want to be viewed as meat by guys. And when I tell girls don't dress in a way that presents them selves as meat, I usually get a response of "Most guys view girls as meat anyway", which is complete bull crap. Yes there are guys that just view girls a meat and nothing more. But if the girl wore clothes that still showed off her body but covered it up more and with a bit of class/style, most guys will view the girl in a different light.

I understand where this is a myth, but it seems that its a never ending cycle with girls. Primary due to the media. As it seems girls learn their programing first from magazines when they get into high school, as that is when I saw fashion magazines and what have you for the first time. And it was also when I notice how girls thought guys wanted them to look like the photoshop models in those magazines.

Id like to feel that was a reference to a certain someone.

Great Post there B, your points will hopefully clear up a lot of confusion for many a reader. The Myth which I find creates a mental block so to speak, is that women make no sense, they make perfect sense, its just the assumption that they don't which causes the confusion.

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Note to self: Reffering to Chief by something other than his name has the knock on effect of strolling into the chat room and being asked; 'Crumpetberry are you a single hippie looking for a man'