Okay Zip Im looking for your most detailed opinion as I do value it highly

heres the situation

ive been serious with this girl for a while now at least 6 weeks but we're not in a relationship because shes been hurt in the past and wants time so im giving her space and time, and sat night we went out and she tried to stop herself making out with me to prove she was in control so I took some girl back to mine and well... made out with her on my bed lol, any way apparently she got really jeleous and text me twice etc etc so yeah i pissed her off bad

spoke to her recently and sorted it out although she was really upset and reckons her feelings have changed now ( clearly they havent shes jus saying it) but i said i would take her out to make it up to her, so we went out last night with another couple, she wanted me to pay, but i didnt because frame control and all that.

but one thing is though she wouldnt kiss me at the end of the night, then she text me later sayin " its not that i dont want to but you ent getting away with things that easily im sorry babe dont be in a mood" (she was refering to what happened at the weekend) she got really really jelous about what happened at the weekend and keeps asking me about how i feel about this girl and whats going on and making constant references to this girl. Im going to this party tomorrow night and both are going to be there. She said on msn last night that she doesnt know how she feels anymore, i think shes bluffing personally because i got a lot of ioi's last night (playing with the necklace, looking into my eyes, laughing at my jokes etc etc)

I was in the alpha role last night I took control, the only thing I didnt have control over was what film we went to see.

no we havent had sex yet.

but shes coming over on saturday night, i said we'd cook dinner together and she could wash up (alpha role again)

how would you progress to sex from there? and also once your making out, what step do you do next? and so on?

few things i'd really like to know

your opinion on

-does she like me and is she bluffing?

- she got really jeleous should i play on that?

- what else do you suggest?

- how should i act with her?

- and your general opinion about everything ive just said

- is the dinner thing a good idea and if not what would you suggest?

I want to be in a relationship with this girl.

I know how i want to play this but i really do want a third opinion on this

thanks for you time dont know what i would do without advice from this forum

Zip lovely, hope you new show in NY went well.
Anywho, been speaking to some people from my past (HB's) and since i no longer have sexual interest in them i thought i might aswell take the oppotuinty to get some information about myself from their perspective.

Anyways, most of it was as i expected and postive, however, a common thing that was coming up from lots of them was their answer to "what made you attracted to me?".
Now aside from more obvious things like funny/good looking/confident/smart the thing they all said was biggest was simply "somthing about you".
Now dont get me wrong, its flattering being told something about me is attractive, but it doesnt really help isolate it to tell other people or explain to wings etc. What do you believe "somthing about you" is likly to be? Is it just me or do lots of women become attracted to guys for unknown reasons?
Madals

Hey there Zip, im taking your advice and stayin away for a while..im not into one night stuff..now dont get me wrong, i like flirting..but meaningful flirting
now anywho, few days ago i was chatting with a girl i know online..and she made me realise something, she said: "hah you sound like my dad"
now, i told her im flattered that she thinks im wise..but looking back at it, could this be one of the reasons im easily dropped in the friends zone instead of the other one..i actually asked her if beeing "dad-like" was bad, she agreed and told me that im right that it made her see me more as a friend then anything else..so i told her that im stopping giving her wise advice and she didnt like that:D (of course she wouldnt, its easier to make a friend rather then taming a bf, right?:)
anyway, so i thought id share that with you, could that "daddy wisdom" be a bad quality i have? and how do u think i can change that, what mindset?
take care

To start, I'd like to thank you for all that you do to help guys better understand the female mind and social dynamics. If we had more understanding women such as yourself more guys could find the women they truely deserve and as a result these women would be much happier too.

I've got two questions. I'm not sure how to classify my first question. perhaps you can identify the sticking point. I'm fairly new to the community but I've learned a lot in a short time (three months). I've conquered my approach anxiety. I have a good sense of style, and I have been told by women that I'm quite good looking (not being stuck up. this is what I've been told) I have always been able to engage people in conversation. I enjoy women and flirting especially with the most beautiful women in the room. I've decided to approach the ones I desire and not settle in life any longer. My issue is too often when I become comfortable in my intitial conversation with a woman it devolves into chit chat or I'm not spiking emotion or I just get too "nice guy". My successes have been hit and miss throughout the years. I'd love to make these women see me as sexual and powerful because that is how I feel inside. I want to live my best life. I'm not congruant with canned game I feel much better using the various tools I've been studying in my own natural way. So what can I do to be seen as more sexual (not horny)?

My next question involves the telephone. I number close pretty often. However rarely do I get a day two for all my efforts. Are they just massaging their egos by having guys call or am I not presenting my best self on my messages and telephone conversation?

Let's hope I've given you enough info to help me resolve my sticking point. Thanks for your support.

I always do one of two things when I get a #, before I leave:

1) Tell her I'll call her tomorrow *to chat*. Ask when the best time to call is, when we can just talk for a while.

2) Tell her I'll call her THAT NIGHT when she's getting ready for bed to wish her a good night. (Thanks, Mystery )

When I call them THAT NIGHT, I simply continue gaming them where I left off. She's usually still in state or quickly regains it, and it's SUPER easy to build comfort over the phone. I also use Mystery's visualization technique. (DAFS, I think he posted it) Tell her to imagine you lying next to her in her bed while you talk, and then tucking her in to sleep. Expand on that, but you get the idea.

When I call the next day, I make a rule to NOT suggest a meet. Of course I try to TRAP her into suggesting one. I use the same phone game structure I will describe for RE-GAMING over the phone.
WHEN SHE DOESN'T ANSWER

If she doesn't answer my calls, I make a rule of calling no more than twice a day every other day. In fact, I usually forget to call even this much because I have OPTIONS. I also sometimes use Tyler Durden 's call, hang up if the answering machine comes on, and call back immediately. It works every now and then, and I don't think it gets a BAD reaction.

Always remember that some girls ARE busy. Don't get yourself all worked up if she doesn't answer the phone. It's easy to lose confidence in your sarge when you don't talk to her. REJECT those self defeating thoughts of "She must not have been interested." You WILL talk to her again. She WILL remember you. She will be HAPPY you called and it will be EASY to talk to her on the phone.

I will call for a WEEK following this rule, and if I still can't get in touch, I'll call from a different number. House phone if I used the cell phone, friends phone, pay phone, etc. What I usually do is: Call from cell phone for a week, call from house phone for a week, call from friends phone a few times, stop calling for a couple weeks. At this point, I usually have forgotten about her completely if not before. Sometimes I'll call random girls months later to practice my phone game.
LEAVING MESSAGES

I leave two messages: One is the standard: "Hey HB, this is Harmless, I'm going out with my friends to such-and-such-cool bar tonight, let me know if you want to tag along."

If this doesn't work, next time I use "Hey HB, this is Rein. I just had the most amazing idea... you have to hear this!"

This has about a 80% success rate in getting girls to call back. They will of course ask what the idea was. Either make up something or say, "I was sitting in the tub taking a bath, and then I realized that my body made the water in the tub rise. I was so excited, I ran down the street naked screaming "Eureka!", or (my favorite) say "I figured out how I could get you to call me back. It totally worked too... Hey, you won't believe what happened to me yesterday... [story]"

Honestly, I don't usually bother going to all this trouble. Usually I call a couple times and then forget about her, but I'm training myself to be more persistent.
PHONE GAME STRUCTURE

Once you get her on the phone, you have two options:

Go for a MEET, or try to regame her on the phone.

SETTING UP A MEET

PROs: Short call, she's less likely to cut you off

CONs: No chance to reinitiate state, regame her, etc. Less likely to work the longer you wait since the first meet. Less successful in general than regaming

I use the well-tested Tag Along Meet Close(tm): "I'm going out to such and such bar with my friends. You should tag along."

This works even better if you know where she likes to hang out (same place you met her on the same day is a good idea) and simply suggest that she meet you there as if you were already going yourself.

More on this below (SETTING UP THE MEET)

REGAMING ON THE PHONE

PROs: You can get her back in state, re-attract her, or build comfort, whichever is necessary.

CONs: Longer phone call, she is more likely to cut you off, it's easier to stall.
PHONE GAME TACTICS AND TECHNIQUE

I follow a much-shortened version of MM: Attract, Rapport, Meet Close.

Whether I'm regaming or just setting up a meet, I always throw in a DHV, buying temp. builder, or call-back humor FIRST.

Tell a quick story that *just* happened, run some roleplaying, or use any good anchors that were created during your sarge. (Anchors aren't just SS bullshit. Callback humor is an anchor, anything that reenforces or amplifies her state is an anchor, etc.)

ALWAYS, ALWAYS let the girl know that you have options. Even if you have to lie. Don't TELL the girl "I'm fucking a lot of girls." You have to SUBCOMMUNICATE it. Think SECRET SOCIETY shit.

"My friend is supposed to come over tonight. *SHE* wants to watch a movie or something. But if she can't make it, I'll probably be going downtown."

NEVER bust her on not answering the phone, not calling you back, being drunk when you met her, or anything else that will cause her to become defensive. (You can break this rule, but it's less confusing just to follow it.)

Stay away from early game routines (David Bowie, Who Lies More, Blonde Hair, etc) and stick to attraction routines, buying temp routines and roleplaying that are EASY to visualize (Powerpuff, Attack Kitten, Eternal Love roleplaying, Las Vegas Marriage, BUBBLE WRAP, etc)

If the conversation gets on dating and relationships (Which it will, because you will LEAD it there), throw in:

"When I'm talking to girls and they ask me if I have a girlfriend, they seem really shocked when I say that I'm singe."

She will PICK UP on the subcommunication: She KNOWS that when a girl asks a guy if he has a GF, that is an *IOI*. She understands that these girls are attracted to you. this creates implied SOCIAL PROOF.

Once she's back in state and attracted again, once she gets a little buying temp, (and especially when she begins to ask rapport questions), it's time to start comfort building. Fractionate from C&F to SUPERFICIAL communication (light rapport). The fractionate QUICKLY from SUPERFICIAL to DEEP communication (deep rapport). Check out IN10SE's stuff here (his ebook is amazing, but he's posted a lot of good stuff as well) because it works very well over the phone.

One of my favorite questions to ask a girl on the phone for deep rapport is: "What are you passionate about? What turns you on?" It's an easy way to calibrate how sexual she is. If she starts talking about sex, the BINGO... time for a booty call. If she starts talking about art, time for more comfort building.

Once you've built attraction and comfort, you can either end the conversation or set up a meet. Sometimes I like to game them without setting up a meet... so they don't feel pressured. Unfortunately, that's like giving a sales pitch without asking to buy. A lot of the time, girls will WANT you to "make the ho say no". They'll see you as beta if you don't.
SETTING UP THE MEET

A girl will be more receptive to seeing you again depending on how attracted she is and her comfort level. If you have enough of both, SHE will suggest a meeting. This rarely happens simply because women are TRAINED not to initiate this sort of thing. Similar to a proximity AI in a club, a girl's strategy here is to BAIT YOU into suggesting a meet.

When she starts talking about her plans for the evening or for the weekend (even though YOU DIDN'T ASK), this is equivalent to her saying: "Here is when and where I am available to see you. Help me set up our day2."

If your calibration of the subcommunication here tells you that she is PRIMED for a day2 with you and wants to be alone with you, forget about the "tag along" and "I'm going out with my friends" and other non-needy subcommunication. She wants to meet you. You just need to take the LEAD and make it happen. She NEEDS an SOI here so that she feels qualified and doesn't experience buyers remorse. So SOI her, qualify her, let her know you WANT to see her again. "You know, I was planning on staying in today and maybe renting a movie. What's your favorite movie?"

If you calibrate that she needs more comfort, set up the meeting in a social place like a coffee shop, the mall, or a bar.

If you calibrate that she needs more attraction, set up the meet using the Tag Along Meet Close or similar because you need to subcommunicate that you are not NEEDY.
PREVENTING FLAKES

Flakes suck. We can usually prevent them by doing our groundwork (SOLID GAME), making sure you suggest a mutually desirable meeting, and by making it HARD for her to flake. Most AFCs are in the habit of providing women with outs. They make it EASY for women to give them excuses, and then they wonder why the girls flake.

When setting up the meet close, ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS say something like "I'll call you if my plans change, but otherwise I'll see you at X." This takes the LEAD, letting her know that YOU will be the one to change the plans, NOT HER.

I saw this comment by a guy on a site, who was attacking Mystery from seeing him on The Pick Up Artist show. Granted that it isn't that great a TV show, in that it intentionally uses a very amateurish approach to PUA in order to make itself palatable to the masses (in my view 'The Keys to the VIP' show done from the Comedy Network in Canada is much better), I was wondering how you'd respond and also suggest other guys here respond to others (both males or females) who express similar cynicism towards PUA (like the comment below), after seeing the TV show.


'He isn't teaching them to simply talk to women, he's teaching them to be fake and put on a performance. He's teaching them how to create a social persona that they will never be able to live up to in their personal lives, no different than Mystery. That's why the guy isn't married, he's in love with himself and clearly needs a good blow to his ego. I personally detest people that put on a performance socially because 99% of the time they can't live up to the image and reputation they create and why? Because they're not simply being confident as who they are, they're practicing routines and cranking the charm to 11. They generally climb to the top of the social ladder but eventually everyone sees what they're really about and they tend to lay a path of lies they can't live or for that matter, own up to. Anyone that socializes with an agenda is scum, plain and simple. When you're a "pickup artist", you have an agenda. Any girl that goes for these routines is either young and inexperienced in the bar scene or knows it's a facade and just wants a mr right now.

I'll routinely contest his methodology, because the logic behind it is hilarious. He breaks down long term relationship fundamentals into components of socializing in situations that'll be brief in time. When someone talks about adding value to your identity in a social situation by utilizing specific psychological techniques, they're truly creating a recipe for disaster, because if these relationships continue, anyone with half a brain is going to catch on by the 3rd or 4th time you maintain these techniques with them or around them socially. These methods work in specific situations, on specific people and are not longterm. It's much like a magic trick. Perform the same trick for the same person each time you see them and after several times, the novelty wears off and they typically figure out what you're doing. Once a person sees what a cheap trick it is, all this "value" you've added to your identity becomes incredibly negative value and the relationship blows up in your face. True value is something that's built up over a long period of time and anyone so easily persuaded into investing themselves over value you establish early on in what's a brief social encounter lasting no more than an hour or two has incredibly low standards. If buying drinks, interesting anecdotes, magic tricks and witty banter gets you a phone number then congratulations, better hope you can live up to the image you've created in the long run. If it gets you kissing, groping and possibly sex, you've simply encountered a whore that's so stupid, they're not smart enough to get paid or, they're simply young, naive and new to bar/club culture. America as well as Europe is rampant with under the age of 30 whores not smart enough to get paid as well as young bloods desperate for attention trying to compensate for the angst and insecurity onset in junior high and high school. He's not teaching you how to get invited in through the front door, he's teaching you how to sneak in a back window and sooner or later you're going to pick the wrong house and get caught'.

No, thank you and the rest of the community for taking an interest in social dynamics. It makes better people, men and women, if used for good.
You need to build comfort and amp buying temperature by keeping a strong sexual frame. All you do is find some way to drop into the conversation that you are a classy, sexual being, who is comfortable with humanity. This doesn't have to be done by taking her hand and saying it during C2, but there are many ways to achieve it.

My favorite is to play the questions game, or any type of q and a game. Don't brag about the fact your lost your virginity to a model. Craft a way to make her ask. That's what a real social dynamo does... sets up the conversation so that it is effortlessly in your favor... and fun for her. The questions game can be found in one of my answers... a few up from this one, I believe.

As you comfortably but sternly escalate kino, you want to escalate the buying temperature by slowly disrobing your strong sexual frame.
So they answer when you call. Perhaps you're coming off as incongruent somehow to the awesome person they gave their number to. Maybe you have performing monkey syndrome (you make her and her friend laugh, you are the center of attention, but you haven't built any rapport with her.)

Maybe you're not making the conversation fun, tantalizing, and short enough to make her want more (more in person.)

I'm not sure because I'm not sure how your conversations are going.

Here's one of my favorite guides on phone game, from "Harmless"

Okay. the questions game:

You go back and forth asking questions and answering them. Ta da!

Rules: once a question is asked once, it can't be asked again.

You: What's your favorite color?
Her: Blue

Now, she asks you a different question, and at no time can "what is your favorite color be asked again."

Where this gets fun: you slowly escalate the sexual nature of the game. She will follow. If she back tracks to something more normal like "do you like pizza?" after you've asked her "where is your favorite place to be touched" then she's uncomfortable or she's getting her nerve up to follow you to the sexy place. Go back with her, make her laugh with some benign question, then escalate it again when she's comfortable and smiling.

You see?

The reason I love it so much is that I had a guy use it on me and had an amazing date. Now, we didn't work out, but I stole the best part of our interaction... that game. I use it any time I want to take it to another level, or if the conversation gets boring.

zip...you have a very strange sense of style.

Zip, something weird happened to me like a month back and because I'm so clueless, I need your input on this.

Now, the other day I was walking on campus and decided to sit down in a lounge area by my class. While I'm sitting, I recognize someone who I use to have in one of my old classes. It was some Hungarian dude and he was always a trip whenever we had class. I was unsure at first so I kept staring and then to my attention, I notice his girlfriend staring right back at me.

So on and off throughout the whole time we were there, we kept having a staring contest against each other! I kept thinking "Man, is she checking me out while her boyfriend is there?" to "Maybe she thinks I'm checking her out (which I was)" They were like the pretty creepy kind of stares, but still we couldn't stop glaring at each other. While I would go back to my book (I was reading in-between this), I would hear really loud smooches and kisses coming from them and it was loud enough for me to hear considering we weren't super close to each other. So when I would stare, I would catch her staring right at me while kissing him! She would stare at me sometimes before I would ever get to stare back. In the end, she would be staring at me more often then I would stare at her because I would catching her looking.

I wanted to do something about it like go up to them and start a pretty weird conversation and make the whole scenario weirder but.... I had no clue what was going on and I felt like a dork! Was she trying to tell me that she was taken? Was she trying to tease me in some way? Or was this in my head the whole time? It's so weird because I don't think... it was but yet I can't seem to figure it out. I need your clarification, Zip.

One last question if you don't mind, this one is just leaving me curious. Is there any message behind someone that says to me "I think you would be a great dad."?