how are you supposed to react? I know alpha males are not robots, they do get angry.


like for instance:

I call hb on phone, she i obiviously distracted and would rather talk to anyone else around her besides me, thus underscoring my importance. so i hung up. but what am i supposed to say when she calls me back asking why I hung up.

So I ended up saying: you obiviously had more interesting people to talk to..


here is another instance:

I text a girl, she only responds once its like a goddamn pattern with her idk. so i text her:

Me: something irrelivant.

hb: something irrelivant. *my one reply.

me: i'm ganna call you, is this a good time?

*no response*

me:Dont bother responding, I dont want to call you anymore, anyways.






I know these arnt the proper things to be doing, i'm just making it up as I go along but what are the proper ways to channel this......anger. is it appropriate to get angry when your importance is underscored?

I usually eject form sets if they are doing shit like this, or if they are dumb. In person if they are worth the effort it is always good to use the mystery thing "aaaaand back to me", it genuinely works and makes them look like idiots for not paying attention to you.

The real issue is why you're texting to ask if it's a good time to call. Girls want you to take some initiative, don't text her to ask first... just call her, if it isn't a good time then she'll not answer and you can leave her a random message.

yeah, i probably should have taken initiative and just called her. but its more about the fact she didnt respond, like i said this is a pattern with her. i coulda said I was ganna kill myself if she only responded once. i think its a game thats why i'm trying to stop this shit.


dude, i love that: "aaaaanddd back to me" fuck, i coulda used that earlier..

i'm shocked no one has lambasted me for my responses so far....what do you guys think?!? is there a borderline between asshole and PUA? where is this line? did I cross it? what would you guys have done?

Both your reactions were in poor taste, as you displayed anger and resentment, which is never something you should be doing if you are trying to change someone's behavioural patterns. Always remain outwardly calm, even if you're inwardly exploding. This is obviously an ideal and no one is perfect; you're not expected to be perfect, but when you're recognizing these as personal flaws, you realise you have the power to change by taking conscious action, so you continually strive to become better at handling these situations in the future.

For instance, in the first situation with the girl that wasn't paying you much attention, I wouldn't have hung up on her, that was rude. I'm assuming your tone when you told her that she obviously had more important people to talk to, was either resentful and upset, or dismissive, which is again causing negative feelings in her and you don't want her to associate negative feelings with you. By being hurtful towards someone when they aren't doing what you want, you push them away. Instead what needs to be done, is show them how to make you enjoy their presence in your life more, which will make them happy to be in your life and give you the attention you desire.

If I were talking and recognized that she wasn't paying much attention, probably because she is just giving one word replies, or saying "uh-huh" and never saying anything of value (note that while you're saying something lengthy, those are actually good things for a person to do usually, as it is their way of letting you know that they are paying attention; it's only when they do that when you pause to give them the opportunity to speak that you should take it as a lack of attention or interest) then I would have just stopped mid sentence and paused for a second. Then, I would say in a kind voice that is showing my concern for whether she is enjoying the conversation, not reprimanding her for not enjoying it, "I feel like this conversation isn't entirely exciting you" or "I feel like I'm boring you". I would never phrase it in a way that places it upon her, such as, "I feel like you're bored" or "I feel like you aren't excited by the conversation" because that makes it her fault, rather than the fault of the discussion, which is what you want it to sound like. It is also incredibly helpful and preferable if you use "I feel" statements rather than statements of fact, such as, "This conversation isn't entirely exciting you". Hopefully you follow so far and if you don't, then go back and find the differences and similaries between the ways I've said the same messages, because they make a HUGE difference and you want to understand why that is in order to be a more effective communicator.

After saying something along the lines of the way I correctly phrased it, such as, "I feel like this conversation isn't entirely exciting you" and as a result of making that dramatic pause right in the middle of what you were saying (perhaps even halfway through a word as if the thought suddenly occurred to you and caught you by surprise), she should theoretically snap out of her distraction and appologize to you and one of several things may occur.

- Perhaps she will give you a reason for being so distracted that you can now discuss with her, now fully engaging her mind in the conversation, as that is what is on her mind and making you more a part of her world.

- Perhaps she'll give you an excuse such as being sick, tired, in the middle of something, etc and then you just say, "Alright, well I'll let you get some rest/back to work and we'll talk later. Feel better/give me a shout when you're not busy!" Now you're just displayed care for her state of being and that you value her welfare (protector of loved ones), as well as showing compassion (willingness to emote) or that you're a busy guy and you're not going to keep calling her back or wasting your time talking to her without her full attention, while still being a nice guy about it and put the onus on her to call you back to demonstrate that she has an investment in your relationship (leader of people), which she is more prone to do as a result of your being caring and kind about it.

- Perhaps she says that nothing is wrong and now she realises she wasn't entirely involved before and not commits to being more involved in the conversation, which she'd prefer to do if you say it like that, rather than being mean or pouty about it, which would make her not interested in continuing.

- Perhaps she says nothing is wrong and doesn't put any more effort into it, in which case after another minute or two, you stop again and politely tell her that you need to take care of important things because you've got a lot to do and you're a busy guy (this sub-communicates the point that she isn't falling into the category of important things, because she isn't putting any value into the conversation, so you don't care to continue wasting your time, but doesn't say it in such a rude way and so she doesn't feel like you're the jerk, she feels like she's the jerk and if she's worth your time, she will make the effort to prove she is worth your time in the future).

If none of the positive outcomes from this arise, then either she's having an off day and things won't be like that in the future, but if this is a recurring issue, then she's probably not worth your time, as this is a fundamental character flaw of hers and no amount of effort on your part is going to change it without her wanting to change it. Don't try to be her therapist and inform her of her issue and get her to change it, that will only destroy your relationship, whether it's a friendship or a romantic/sexual one.


That's a fair bit of info right there and perhaps you can use something from it for the texting issue, if not, then perhaps I'll post something about it later on. Cheers Fickle.

_________________
"The 'Brick Walls' are there to allow you to prove how badly you want something!" ~ Randy Pausch

~ Rye

Cheers! wow thanks for the post, i like that... i feel.

correct me if i'm wrong here, but you seem to like to take the psychiatrist route here...people open up to those guys. mmm

i've installed a calm anchor ( damn good one at that) so my anger can be soothed on cue.

I probably should have elaborated a little more, even though you did cover this, she was being obiviously rude, i've never experienced such demeaning rudness in my life, like she was talking to everyone else in the room BUT me. I couldnt have even said: "I feel like your not interested" because she basically wasnt listeneing. so i just hung up.

your right, its a huge character flaw and I can obviously do better.


as far as the text goes, i kinda figured she'd like to explain herself... i guess not cuz she deffinently hasnt replied. i really need to quit sarging the bottom of the barrel. lol now i just made myself miss my one-itis lol



i've read your post about 5 or 6 times aleady its good.


rye, you seem to enjoy i know this isnt germane to the subject, but i've been wondering this about you. you like gaming alpha females, why? when you can get a hb10 without the self value off the charts attitude!?

Oh dude, I can TOTALLY relate to you over that chick! (haha, here's our bonding moment, eh? )

I was going out with a girl several months ago and things were great at first, but she's really damaged and I didn't realise it when I got into the relationship (probably wouldn't have stopped me, because I felt a connection and that was what mattered to me). After things went downhill because of her issues with relationships as a result of being emotionally broken by other men over the years, we remained friends, "best friends" theoretically. Psh. She still had feelings for me and I for her, but she couldn't deal, so she became very distant and ended up not returning my calls when she said she would, not showing up when she said she wanted to hang out and telling me she was busy, then I'd talk to her and she'd be hanging out with people and pull that EXACT same thing. I'd think she was talking to me and I'd reply and then she'd dismiss what I'd said, saying she was talking to someone else, without having told me she was WITH anyone else. After that she was done, whether I loved her or not, you can't let yourself be walked upon like that.

I actually posted what I said on the forum for Lair I just joined last week and they asked me to summarize and simplify the concept into a paragraph, which I did, but they still said it was too complex, lol! So I'm REALLY glad you understood and got something out of that man, I wrote it for you and whether they get it, I don't care, I'm just glad it helps you!

----

As for the Alpha females, I guess you could classify them as such, yeah. I like a woman with confidence, because I don't like having to constantly re-assure her that she's amazing and worth my time, although I still think those things should be done in a healthy relationship and I enjoy doing them when appropriate. I think I am attracted to Alpha's, because I don't want to be with someone that is less-than me, I want someone that I can view as an equal and respect as such, so that I can ask their opinion on something and value it, rather than finding it pointless, or uninspired. I want someone that is capable of healthy displays of emotion, without being a drama queen, or being emotionless, as I am a passionate and emotional person and need someone that is willing to explore that range of emotions with me, while respecting me for it, because they can understand it from personal experience. I like a woman that isn't afraid to lead, but who must also be willing to follow, as well as proceed side by side, because sometimes I feel equiped and driven to lead, sometimes I like to be led (especially love to be teased and dominated - in a non S&M kind of way - in the bedroom, which is something most Beta girls don't do very well, if at all) and sometimes the situation calls for us to do things together equally. She has to be willing to take risks and try new things, because I value new experiences highly and grow bored without them, as well as enjoying to do things that most girls find too risque or bold. She has to feel the need to protect her loved ones, because I am only human and although I am strong, I am not impervious and sometimes I may need care, yet she needs to be willing to be cared for. The one thing I DON'T give a crap about, is whether or not anyone else desires her (aka pre-selection); I don't care if anyone else thinks she's hot, or the nicest person, or the most intelligent, or any of those things - although obviously she has to be capable of getting along with people, as I'm a very social person and I'd like her to participate in that, otherwise we won't get to share in many aspects of life - because I'm the one that has to be attracted to her and I'm the one that has to love her, no one else, so their opinion on those things doesn't matter and her being desired by others won't make me covet her any more or less, it will only increase my paranoia, because again I'm only human.

Phew, that was big...but I got inspired and went on a little bit of self discovery there. Realised why so many of the women I've pursued haven't work out, they didn't meet one or more of those "musts". Something everyone should do really. If you don't know what you're looking for in a woman and why, then you're never going to be happy with the ones you get. I think I'll make a new thread with this in it actually, thanks! I encourage you to post what you're looking for and why and give it some serious thought if you haven't until now.


Oh and as a final note, I take a psychological approach for sure, but the goal isn't to be the girl's psychologist, because as I said, that'll mess everything up; probably part of what destroyed my relationship with that girl, she was constantly having issues and I was always trying to help her deal because I figured that's what you do when you care, heh.

_________________
"The 'Brick Walls' are there to allow you to prove how badly you want something!" ~ Randy Pausch

~ Rye