under the radar: opinion openers are great because you can ask the same stuff to everybody and can disregard looks and then if things go well you can always reconsider her... and show some interest in her... if she deserves it... meanwhile there is no tension (because you are not a potential suitor) and you and her can just get to know each other comfortably. great stuff...

but i personally suck at going in under the radar. i need other people around me for opinion openers to work. as means of getting the social proof to point out its a real/valid question.
i do know how to "not show interest" with my body language etc, but the first impression girls get from me is that i'm a "high-value playboy".
and then they just dont get it why i'm talking to them about something so silly, they always think i'm trying to fuck with their minds / bully them around / bring them down. if i dont show interest, they think that i'm just there to bring them down. because they somehow feel that my value is too high for them and something must be wrong here.
it also looks incongruent if I "a playboy" go to a hot girl and pretend I'm just interested in talking about some opinion opener. even if i do pull it off congruently, i feel like i lose sexual tension and am just befriending her instead.

while with direct game... i let them know directly i have noticed them, and go straight for qualification: "i see you everywhere, but who are you?"... and go in for kino etc... I GET THE HOTTEST ONES.. and i have all this sexual tension in the air from the first minute... i get their number within minutes, i skip dating them and usually able to make them come straight to my home... and i've never ever pulled that off by an opinion opener!!!

Still... i would like to get better in going in under the radar...

AM I MISSING SOMETHING HERE?? AM I HAVING THE WRONG MINDSET? why is this under the radar thing not working well for me?

Dude!

What makes you think you need to learn indirect when direct works so well for ya?!

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cuz he wants to improve his game... all aspects.

Seems to me like you can't pull off the indirect approach simply because you know you are being insesere and this is being broadcast loudly to the girls thru either your body language or your tone of voice or both. Whereas, with the direct approach, you know what you want and what you are doing, and it synchronizes with the signals you send to the girls. Basically, it sounds like you are a bad actor :p

Really, all you can do there is just practice like mad, its just like overcoming initial approach anxiety for a noob. You need to get used to it is all. Of course, it would help if you actually did care about what the girl has to say

Maybe if you focused more on the fact that this is making you more of PUA, rather than thinking about it as just a long step towards the endgoal of getting layed?

I dont know... it is hard to know whats up with just a short post, after all.

thanks for the replies guys.. i appreciate it. i really want to learn to act in the right way for opinion openers to work...
totally true >> i dont give a shit about what they say. this is my error: i really dont care much about their opinion, so why the hell am i asking?? i should change this wrong mindset, thats why my opinion openers suck... you hit the nail.

Vary by situation.

If a 9 or 10 is standing alone then go in straight for the kill.

But if your looking at a set or mixed set opinion openers are great. It gets the group talking and your not singling out the target as of yet. Once you have her isolated then you can go in for the kill with something like, ive talked with your friends but tell me about yourself?

Its been said opinion openers are noobish and i slightly agree. I used one today on a much older woman (my guess mid 30's) and it got the convo started and i was getting ioi's but when i took my leave without number closing (i wasn't interested) she seemed annoyed. My guess is the same incongruent playboy image problem your having (i was wearing a power suit with french cuffs at the time because i just came from a dinner party).

However to fly under the radar you can use an environment opener which might help you be more effective. The idea is to get to know eachother with no pressure and as soon as you get your ioi's its time to gear shift. if you dhv and keep your body language tight she ll probably like you whether you express interest or not. Maybe even a bit more if you don't because then she ll feel the need to qualify.

I personally think DIRECT works best and you should stick to DIRECT...

Indirect is a waste of time, trying to fake interest, trying to appear you're not interested even though they sense it miles away... c'mon guys... women are not that stupid to not know you want to fuck them... why else would you approach them ...

Direct is simple, fast, effective!

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well.... speak for yourself there, buddy..

For some guys, its direct. for others (me), its indirect. Everybody has their own style, their own comfort levels where they play best. And this goes double for the HBs! Give me some time and a decent place (god I hate clubs) and I will score most of the girls I set my eyes on.

That said, I still want to work on my fast-track game. I can understand why this guy would want to work on his indirect approaches (they are like half the play-book!).

But seriously, the best way to lie to others is to start lying to yourself. You WANT to know this girl. If you can deal with it, you could start trying to use game to actually make friends with girls, explore their personality instead of their pants. Tell yourself that the stupid/shallow/easy ones are unattractive. Make it a contest with yourself, see how many attractive women you can actually befriend. At the very least, see how many of them you can start a deep, interesting conversation with, about something you really care about. WARNING: you may end up in a solid relationship if you follow this route too closely. Tread carefully, padiwan.

OK you dont like club game, but i'm actually talking about club game.

Opinion openers are great when you are on a roll:
If I'm with friends in a club, I fake the opinion opener by first asking my friends. If there is a female friend, I take her by the hand and take her to the next set and ask again. If there is no female friend, I usually take an easy female victim in proximity, I entertain her a bit also so she likes me and then take her by the hand to enter the next set etc... and so I continue from set to set. I neg/C&F all HB's meanwhile that I stumble upon and open their mouth. Until I stumble upon a nice HB of which all obstacles(her friends) are taken care of already and then run 1-on-1 game on the nice HB.
I like opinion openers because you can say the same thing again and again and it makes sense: Because you really want to do a survey of their opinions. And with every extra time you do it: It makes more sense to the previous people that you are actually interested in the answer, because you ask so many people. So it all makes sense if you survey the whole place after all.

Now the problem is... sometimes you are not on a roll.....
Lets say your friends are boring, or they are gaming a girl themselves, or went to bar or toilet... And everybody else in proximity is in heavy conversation, not easy to break in. Lets say you are -for a few minutes- just standing there... Now you lost all momentum... You have to spot an easy female victim who is easy to open??? and then run the opinion opener... but even the easy victim will give you a hard time: why the hell are you walking towards me and asking me my opinion??? this guy is weird, this guy was alone and came to me out of nowhere and asking me weird questions!! get him away!!! and then you actually get blown out by an UG! and you lost all social proof in the room, because all the girls have seen it happen.

How to solve such situations???? (and only indirect game is allowed)

Frame control.

If the girl is standing in a corner alone then walk into her area and pretend to scan the room like your looking for someone (explains why you are in the corner next to her). Then notice her and if you want to get fancy do a roll off then turn back and say hey can i get your opinion on something.

But if you come straight in like a hawk its gonna look wierd. The idea of an opinion opener is to appear spontaneous not like you walked accross the room to ask her a random question.

And if the ugg blows you out so what. Laugh and walk away with a face like that girl is nuts. But personally i wouldn't waste time with a girl im not attracted to anyway.

ok i get you, it can work. you just have to act like you are doing something else, which is kind of weird/creepy for me. it doesnt feel like i'm a super alpha top dog if i act that way... (if you know what i mean?)
But maybe i should give it a go.

I usually stay put for a few minutes, think about life and what else is on my mind (but not scanning the room on purpose, so i am not a threat) and wait until the dynamics change so someone comes in proximity to open indirect (a matter of time). This takes more time than your solution, but at least i dont have to walk all over the place and act like I am searching for my imaginary friend.

And why talk to UG's? Well... I never did that before, I was always the guy who ignored UG's. But you can't run indirect game in a club if you ignore UG"s. Because there are always more UGs than HBs. So if you dont talk to UGs you end up alone for a few minutes, you lose momentum and then you have to come out of nowhere for an HB.
It's much easier to surround yourself with UGs and then when an HB is in proximity you just fire the opinion opener, and the UGs around you provide the social proof that you are not a creep and its indeed a valid question.... thats how i use UGs nowadays.

indirect game usually works best for me when i am on a roll: that means when there is not even a minute that i am alone and i am constantly talking to people and feel all this high energy. BAM BAM opening people left and right, keeping convo going, negging girls, having fun, etc

But the minute I end up alone I lose the momentum/energy and have to start all over again.. Thats when indirect game is the hardest for me....

I guess you guys must have that problem too? Are there other solutions?

try indirect direct indirect verbal direct body language

I guess indirect openers are relient on good body language and remember from 'the game' dont approach them directly just make it seem like you just saw them. Lovedrop talked about a double look. Glance quickly first and then look again and be like 'oh', so it makes it seem like you just noticed them.