Do you consider what you are doing to be manipulating women? Do you think manipulating women is acceptable, or not/right or wrong?

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"The 'Brick Walls' are there to allow you to prove how badly you want something!" ~ Randy Pausch

~ Rye

Vote's in. I manipulate women, and I feel slightly bad about it sometimes. I also manipulate dudes, my friends, my parents, and everyone really. I don't feel bad about it in the way most of you think though. I feel bad that everyone isn't as capable of manipulation as I am.

I'll try my best to explain, but I don't expect many of you to be able to see my point of view, no do I expect those of you who can, to agree with me.

I'm a firm believer in NLP, and the Subjective Experience. What the Subjective Experience is is a school of thought that everyone's thoughts and actions are subject to their experiences. Basically, your environment, and the people around you have a strong influence on your life, thoughts, experiences, and actions.

So to keep this post short, basically I think that just by talking to someone, you are manipulating them. Now, this is a slightly different interpretation of manipulation than many of you have, however I still feel it is a fitting one.

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Mimicking an artist never leads to true success... However becoming an artist mimicked is true success

I phrased the question in the way that I did, for just this reason actually. Everyone will have their own interpretation of what manipulation entails, so every guy and girl gets to be their own judge and jury. I know I'm not capable of defining manipulation in a way that would be agreed upon by everyone here, but if anyone else thinks they are able to, please feel free to attempt it here.

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"The 'Brick Walls' are there to allow you to prove how badly you want something!" ~ Randy Pausch

~ Rye

I am okay with manipulating girls, because they do the same to guys. And I am in favor of equality of the sexes so I see no problems in doing it. Plus manipulating is one of the many ways to get ahead in life.

To me, manipulation is the art of skillfully influencing something or an aspect of someone (decisions, feelings etc). Now most people on her are learning or have learned the skills required to perform some sort of manipulation of women. (as i believe most people generally are in some aspect, but us more so in terms of women)

Now as uncle Ben told us, 'With great power comes great responsibility'

Manipulation is often heard with a tone of negativity, maybe because of peoples own individual theories on what manipulation is. It is often associated purely with getting people to do and feel what they do not want to . (can you really make someone do something they don't want to,........more on that story later ) Now if they didn't want to do/feel it in the first place and you get them to want to do/feel. Then ultimately you have moved them from one mindset to the other. Yet this 'alteration of their mindset' is so often only thought of as positive to negative. When in fact moving someone from a bad mood to a good mood, a negative to positive change of mindset, must also be thought of as manipulation due to the change of mindset. Yet this should be thought of in a positive light.

So I feel good about manipulation women or people, dependent on it being a negative to positive alteration.

Rye, the way you phrased the question to allow everyone's individual belief on what manipulation is, very nicely done.

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Note to self: Reffering to Chief by something other than his name has the knock on effect of strolling into the chat room and being asked; 'Crumpetberry are you a single hippie looking for a man'

I voted i do, and i am happy about it.

Like whats been said before tho, its nor just women. I manipulate everyone. Everyone does to some degree. I prefer to think of it as infulencing people.
If you cant influence people, how can you get things you want? you cant.

I do also manipulate generally, as if you never changed someones opinions or beliefs then you would have much less say in your own life.

Just didn't state that in my other post.

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Note to self: Reffering to Chief by something other than his name has the knock on effect of strolling into the chat room and being asked; 'Crumpetberry are you a single hippie looking for a man'

I voted "I don't manipulate; I think it's wrong." because MY definition of manipulation entails getting someone to do something they would never want to do.

Seduction in the pickup arts here involves getting a woman to do what she really DOES want to do.

I think that guys with the manipulation mindset think that women inherently would not ever want to sleep with them, so they must trick her into bed somehow. The way I see it, PUAs understand that women actually DO love sex and would love to sleep with a guy who isn't afraid to express his best true self.

Playing the game isn't manipulation to me. To me it's natural and artistic courtship.

I could'nt vote on the poll.
I don't maniplate women, but on occasion i do.
But Like you said, it all depends on what your view of manipilation is.

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To effectively communicate, we must realise that we are all different in the way we percieve the world and use this understanding as a guide to our communication with others.

If its something she really wants to do something, despite someone else's beliefs, wouldn't that not make it manipulation? I suppose it depends on your definition of manipulation.

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Men fall in love with their eyes. Women fall in love with their ears.

Thats more of the definition that comes to my mind when I think of that word.

I define it as being able to achieve a certain outcome through deception. If you lie or make the person feel guilty/bad person to get your way then you are manipulating them.

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"To Give anything less than your best is to sacrifice the gift" -Prefontaine

Not a PUA just a girl offering my opinions/advice

Manipulation, it's not negative.


The only reason this poll even is here is because of some idea/concept of that to manipulate is negative...

Ask yourself this; is not also what Random AFC does by buying gifts and flowers an attempt to manipulate. ?


No matter what you do when you interact with any entity it is manipulation, in some way.

Being cognizant of the fact that you manipulate, and manipulating with a set goal, knowing the how and the why.... Is this bad ?

I doubt it.
As long as you don't manipulate to the extent that you override the persons own morals/ethics, and/or conflict with the persons values;
as long as you don't do that, manipulation is not bad.

Manipulation by creating through NLP/Hypnosis, a false desire, or some false reason for them to break with what, and who, they are is bad; and this may also cause serious mental problems and extreme buyers remorse. (This is the reason some techniques are "forbidden" and not taught to people who are not yet capable of taking responsibility for their actions, and or simply pure egosentrics with no empathic abilities.(read; psychopaths or extremely childish people.))

So; no, I don't think manipulation is bad, and the fact that I know what I'm doing and how it will affect the person only allows me to take more care in how I use the material. (Keeping in mind the golden rule; always leave them better than you found them)

Cheers'

I agree with Hobbit here although it is clear that an agreement on the definition and limits of manipulation is not going to be reached. For a start the American and English dictionary give different definitions.

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Note to self: Reffering to Chief by something other than his name has the knock on effect of strolling into the chat room and being asked; 'Crumpetberry are you a single hippie looking for a man'

Hehe, exactly why I didn't bother to attempt it. I can agree with this definition in ways, although I can agree with several points others have made, mostly Chief's definition is how I feel about it. I think this is a great discussion.

I think the grey area occurs, when you get a person to THINK they are doing something they want, when in actuality, they are doing something that is not something they will like once they realise the reality of the situation. Sometimes we get people to want to help us and they think it will benifit them to do so, but really we are just using them to serve our own needs and not theirs at all (I've been conned like this a few times and boy does it sting).

I'll agree with Hobbit's sentiments though, of not manipulating women into relationships, or in a romantic/sexual way, although occassionally I have had need to manipulate people, which can include females, but not in a romantic/sexual sort of way, merely as human beings. When I do this though, I do my best not to cause any sort of harm to them, or make it so that they suffer for it later, as I consider myself a pacifist and a humanitarian.

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"The 'Brick Walls' are there to allow you to prove how badly you want something!" ~ Randy Pausch

~ Rye

I guess I do or I did. Well.. I mind fucked girls a lot. Does that count? Like shoving bullshit down a throat to get a lay? I was a bad person. I have a girlfriend now

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I'm addicted to facing my fears.