I don't want this to offend you, Zip, but how would you react if you were at a party and a random guy walks up to you with a couple of his friends and yells "You're a skank!" while smiling and pointing at you?

I only ask this because this guy I'm affiliated with (I don't call him a "friend" because I think he's annoying) often does this and he actually gets girls that he does it to. Not 100% of the time, but definitely more often than I expect. I don't know if it's low self-esteem on the woman's part or whatever, but I want to know how well-grounded girl like you would respond to it.

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If my post made me appear homosexual, I want you all to know that prior to sitting down at my computer I slammed 15 shots of whiskey, went balls-deep into my woman, and recited Clint Eastwood lines for 20 minutes.

This is a great thread I'm intending to read in it's entirety and am up to page 15.

As my interest is more in online dating / online hook up sites (as bars and clubs aren't really my scene), I want to ask Zip for her expert advice about tips - approaches to use when contacting women via online
dating / online hook up sites, that would impress a lady. In reading the online profiles of many women in my area, many actually say how they get so many bland, predictable messages from guys, that they don't even bother responding to them (like guys probably saying how much they want to screw them and all that stuff), so actually say in their profile, if you're writing to them, try impressing them with something original, different, imaginative and interesting (as in what their sex fantasy is with a woman, how they perform as a lover, or whatever it is women consider unique and imaginative).

Granted these sites are much harder for males to meet women (as most women make quick judgements on how hot a guy looks by his photo), I want to ask Zip if she was doing online dating, or was on a online hook up site, what approach, comment/s sent to you by a guy (in their E Mail message) would impress you, in terms of being different and imaginative, that you'd reply back to (compared to ones you wouldn't respond to).

Also if you ask women online, to name 3 interesting things about themselves that's not in their profile, what are good answers or suggestions to give, if they inevitably throw the question back at the guy to answer as well (in terms of answers that would impress you for a guy to give).

Creating rapport really happens (if you're MM) in the comfort stage. That's when you go for deep rapport.

Now you know (classically, but encouraged in bits elsewhere, IMO) where it goes, what is it? Rapport is seeing like things in another person. It's swapping emotions. It's showing you're capable of being a (healthy and not needy) emotive man who is in need of something from the world, not from HER (specifically...at first... not getting into relationships here.)

Now, that sounds confusing... let me put it into a metaphor for you. Rapport is like looking into a mirror and seeing yourself. Comfort is like sitting in a big, comfy chair and getting a massage while doing it. Does that help?

Generally, after you isolate your target, you move to the rapport/comfort part of the night. You start with easy rapport, move to light rapport, then into deep rapport, and BAM she loves you (jk... or am I?)

Easy rapport is finding like topics that you have in common. You ask her something intriguing, flirty, and rather light? "So what makes you different from the rest of the brunettes in this place?" She says "I go spelunking." Okay, you like rock climbing. BAM, easy rapport. You go deeper with something showing you have emotional depth and capacity. It can be a DHV story about how you were going to go rock climbing and saw a stray dog on the side of the road, took him in, and the dog was a bad ass. BLA BLA BLA. Something real. Something from your own life.

Then, you move into deep rapport. This is where you show that you're a hero, but not for just any girl. And not a sissy. So maybe, the dog died, and you never got a chance to really realized that, yeah, he was a bad ass fetch player and a cool buddy, he really meant more to you than you thought.. you learned something... you saved kittens... you saved lives... you found spirituality... WHATEVER.

She shares her shit, the entire time you've been escalating kino so the K close doesn't seem out of place. There you go.

Remember, 90% of your time with a girl is in comfort/rapport. That goes for successful relationships, mind you. Not one night stands. Unless you want to come across like an over-emoting sissy.

DHV stories coming up... I've got a great post on that from the workshop I give. I'll link it here.

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- Zip

No offense taken. If someone said that to me at a party, and he was with a group of friends who were laughing, and didn't come up with something right after to completely nullify that statement or ENSURE it was a joke, I'd make their lives a living hell. Actually, scratch that. Even if they made up for it, they said it. Not cute. Fuck them. I'd take away all their social proof and make them cry. Seriously. That's not even cute. It's not a neg, and it's a piss poor opener for women of high value (high value not meaning HOT or whatever, I mean women with worth. Intelligence, worth, confidence, etc.)

It's interesting that your friend has some sort of success rate with this opener. Maybe it's the women's self worth. Even though I'm an extremely confident woman, and I'd laugh it off while I make the guys wish they were dead... inside... I'd be really bothered. I think ANY woman would. That's why, perhaps, women who NEED constant affirmations of their worth look to the very men who devalue them for quality reassignment.

Chicks sometimes dig assholes. Chicks also can lack a lot of confidence. Chicks can also be badasses who know better than to qualify themselves to those who don't deserve it. Men have the same capacity. All human beings do.

Interesting question, and it brings up a few for me as far as the success of this opener (I totally believe that it works for your "friend." I just wonder... how.)

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- Zip

Awesome question. I'm going to dig through some of my online dating notes and messages to get some good examples for you. Check back later.

[later edit]

I don't know anything about online hook-up sites. Not my bag. I have been a member of match.com, and had some really fun dates from it. Nothing super-long-term.

I'm not the best to ask about online dating, J Smooth is the person I point people to on the forum. He has his own thread.

Professionally, I'd check out Race and Kelly at http://www.windowshoppingforwomen.com they are experts.

Yes, the girls you've talked to are absolutely correct. In order for me to answer, your message will have to be original, funny, a bit caustic.... something different. Neil Strauss went with the asshole approach. I don't think I'd respond to that. I respond to random humor. I respond to self-deprecation and confidence.

I tried to go into my match.com files, but they're locked up or something. I'm pissed and have made it a mission to get into them. Hence, I don't have any examples for you.

As far as three interesting things go... I don't know you. I'm not going to tell you three things so you can just use them. You need to make them about yourself. However, I'd suggest using it like a DHV story

1.) Something that shows you are a good human being, a good friend, have some sort of value to society, an amazing talent you have
2.) Something that shows emotional capacity, humanity, saving kittens, etc. Something along the lines of deep rapport
3.) Something offbeat and funny, like how you have a third nipple.

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- Zip

hey zip....

i usually have no problem amping attraction with girls im interested in....and i can keep this going for a while till some sort of comfort has been reached. and the last few phone numbers have come pretty natural.....it's just that sometimes i can still see a bit of reluctance when they give it to me.....that or i just dont ask cuz it just doesn't come with the flow......

i want to know what you think on getting it without any "awkwardness"....
it always feels like logic kicks in when i'm getting to it and i want it to seem like its no big deal.....like getting it without her going out of state....

one case in specific is this waitress.......if that changes the question any....

Well, don't get the number at the end of the conversation and then eject. Get it in conversation when it's relevant to what you're talking about, and continue conversation until your time constraint becomes applicable. Or, while you're talking to her or in set, just hand her the phone. Continue as usual. It's not about the phone number. It's about the vibe and connection. That's what will set you apart from the rampant douches.

And that's what's going to get her to pick up the phone when you do call.

-Zip and a guy who is sitting here who is good at this stuff.

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- Zip

Thanks for the answer. So anyways he pulled it off again two nights ago, and I've come to learn that his "strategy" involves a lot of throwing crap against a wall and seeing what sticks, or, rather, who sticks. His success rate I've found is due to his persistence rather than a lot of women falling for style of opener. After hanging with him for like an hour he treats random girls like crap until this one girl responded somewhat positively ("heeeey, that's not nice! Hahaha"), then he pretty much continues treating her like crap. I really felt bad for her because as time went on it became clear that she was getting upset, but she gave her number to him anyway, and I managed to ditch that guy and his friend shortly after.

All that aside, I have one more question for you. There's a lot of things guys look for when they decide to approach a woman, and from there they can employ several means of closing her. However I'm curious about what would drive a woman to approach a man. In any given situation, when you see a guy, what gives you the urge to approach him, and eventually, close him?

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If my post made me appear homosexual, I want you all to know that prior to sitting down at my computer I slammed 15 shots of whiskey, went balls-deep into my woman, and recited Clint Eastwood lines for 20 minutes.

Okay, I like playing the game and making a guy approach me. Proximity, open body language, eye contact and breaking eye contact... all that shit.

If a guy is being a pussy, and doesn't get it, I'll approach.

If I'm feeling especially randy, I'll just open guys for the hell of opening them. Not in an overtly flirtatious way, but more in a social buddy buddy way. Many men get turned off by aggressive women. I give them an aggressive person, who then amps up the sexuality once I'm in.

Here's the difference, women are golden with starting in the "friend zone." Getting out of it is as easy as shooting the guy "that look." BAM.

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- Zip

Hi Zip,
Back in November you said the quote up above. I couldn't agree more on both points as I have a lot of experience there. Magic is super effective but you have to be careful. Actually screwing up the trick is easy to recover. I just say, "alright, what do I look like I practice this in a mirror or something?"

What I've found though is that some guys go learn a few tricks and run out and perform them and look like a clown. They use magic and let sound pick up fundamentals go right out the window.

It was nice to see your opinion on this though and I would love to get your opinion it even further. I'm bringing a unique perspective to the community by teaching this exact art..."pick up magic." Fusing magic and pick up to create attraction instead of just silly entertainment. My mission is to show guys that they can use this powerful technique very easily if they understand "how."

my site is pumaskills dot com.

I would love for you to check it out from a girl's perspective. You'll notice the last thing I do is tell guys that a magic trick will get any girl into bed. It's an effective tool if used wisely...and I can show them how to do that.

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Have You Seen The Hiroshima Opener Technique?
http://pumaskills.com/at/go.php?c=pickupartistforumhiro
Or magic tricks for pick up artists?
http://pumaskills.com/at/go.php?c=pickupartistforum

Okay, let me give you a honest run down on what I just went through.

I read your post. I judged what I said in November as a bit novice. Magic Tricks are so... smarmy...

Then, I went to your website and watched your video. I thought it was a bit cheesy at first, then I saw you punch a finger through a sweet and low and realized why this stuff is called chick crack.

You're absolutely right, and go forth and prosper. Magic tricks work. As long as you have a passion for them, and they are congruent with who you are... work it out. I was attracted to you (or whoever the guy was) in the video, not going to lie. Intrigued and charmed.

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- Zip

(Thanks Zip, by the way, check your P.M.)

Glad you liked the sugar packet...girls really do eat that up. You're right that so often the thought of a guy doing magic in a bar to meet girls sounds "smarmy" even to me!

The bad rap that it gets I think stems from guys taking themselves way to seriously doing it, actually trying to act like a magician which I think would be a major turn off to a girl.

The best magic is totally spontaneous, under the radar and surprising. Just like the sugar packet trick. No girl ever sees it coming and it's so situation appropriate.

You said one thing that is spot on..."use magic if it's congruent with who you are." Agree totally. You have to enjoy doing it. Just learning a trick and throwing it in your set like a robot will doom you to failure. I preach time and again that it can "enhance your personality not replace it."

BUT, there's nothing like the sight of making a hot girl gasp in excitement with witnessing you perform the impossible. Even better is when you see them a couple months later and they remember you "fondly" as that guy who can do magic. Love that feeling!

Bottomline is that it's another tool for a PUA. It's also useful for beyond the game. When you have a girlfriend/wife, whatever.

I could drone on. Thanks again Zip for the comments and enjoy your membership. Let me know what you think.

Brad

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Have You Seen The Hiroshima Opener Technique?
http://pumaskills.com/at/go.php?c=pickupartistforumhiro
Or magic tricks for pick up artists?
http://pumaskills.com/at/go.php?c=pickupartistforum

Zip, this thread is for like, advanced questions and shit I cant find anywhere else right?

What's the difference between a goat and a sheep?

It's been on my mind all damn day...

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I'm addicted to facing my fears.

There is no difference as long as you're tappin' that ass

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- Zip

Oh Jesus... Beschatten! First your cousin and now goats and sheep?! When will the madness end!?