Ok, inspired by the thread about the foreigners...

I was analyzing the charm and/or success these macho AFC beachguys etc etc have.

People who are into going up to a woman starting with you are gorgeous, ciao bella, hey babe, or something along that line do not know about the linearity of the mystery method. So why do they succeed?

As PUAs, we know that in order to show attraction to a woman, we must first get IOIs from her and then go into A3 right...

AFCs trust in their looks, "peacocking" coolness and so on. In order to pick up a woman this way, you must be stunning (more or less) to build attraction during the few seconds between your eye contact and your compliment. If she does not feel attraction before that, you are probably bouncing off the bitch shield.
Is this why there are guys with zero game out there who are still getting laid?

What is your opinions on this topic?

You can play the AFC card and overwhelm her with compliments upon opening as long as:

1) You have framed yourself in a passionate, barely controlled state of desire for her.

2) You show her that you are no threat, that it is her who is making you say and do the things you are doing.

3) You are relentless, and overwhelm any resistance with your passion during your pursuit.

Basically, you are placing her in a position of power---she's your trophy---and you are definitely going after her. But you must show that it's not your fault you're chasing her, that you can't help but do what you do because of her. This works because it makes her feel incredibly sexy and desirable, and she will get caught up in it and actually jump into your state of arousal. The keyword is overwhelm, as you keep hammering home your desires for her---be extremely descriptive and articulate in describing the effects she's having on you and your inability to do anything else about it---and pretty soon her defenses will break down.

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afc-challenge-to-the-masters-social-anx ... 10108.html

Basically you hand you're balls over on a silver platter and hope that she finds them worthy enough. Don't ever expect her to treat you with respect.

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I'm addicted to facing my fears.

We are not machines and we aren't supposed to follow linear structure, that's why. The M3 model is not dogma; it's a set of guidelines, not rules. It is designed in such a way that it has minimal chance of failure, regardless of your confidence. You don't have to get IOIs from a woman before approaching her, or before showing interest yourself. The reason guys who appoach and tell a woman she is beautiful straight away are successful is because they are confident in themselves, so confident that they can say whatever the fuck they want - they know they'll succeed and have no fear. I use direct methods and the results speak for themselves... if you approach with very little confidence and poor body language, and tell a woman she is hot, it looks like you're putting her on a pedestal and that she is something you want and know you can't have, but you're complimenting her to make her feel good about herself in the hopes that she likes you. On the other hand, if you are confident and you know she will reciprocate interest in you based on previous experience with other women of her caliber, the way you say those words and the way you carry yourself are going to be 1000 times better.
The reason why guys with no game get laid is quite simple. If you ask any couple how they met, the answer is almost always the same. Friends introduced them, they met at school, or at work. People tend not to stray far from their existing social network when it comes to choosing partners - it's a comfort thing. It's the reason why women you don't know are taken aback when you approach them, or act bitchy. An AFC with no game whatsoever can get laid by girls within his social circle because he already has social proof established and is non-threatening, he knows if she is single or not because of the friends in common, and because she follows the same rules and doesn't get approached by anyone outside that group anyway, she will settle for anyone within the group who makes himself available to her. Women need sex as much as we do and if this is the only guy who will approach her and ask her out, by fuck she'll go out with him nomatter what way he does it.

Sure, but approach without any kind of value and you will be just another loser trying to pick her up right?

I see a lot of people in the community moving towards direct game as well as inner game, which shifts the goal of pickup from getting women as painlessly as possible to more of a self-help course.

Nothing particularly wrong with that, but let me describe the problems I have with direct game. When you approach a woman directly and express interest in her, you're calling for an immediate evaluation of value. She currently has nothing to go off of besides your body language and your physical appearance.

For one, this makes the "in your league" thing a reality. What I mean is, when a girl has nothing but body language and looks to go off of, she's much more likely to choose someone who she sees as on her level as far as beauty is concerned. This works alright if you're the buff, pretty boy type but it means that less attractive guys have to stick to HB's <7, which might not be healthy for inner game.

Indirect game's objective is to get in under the radar, avoid immediate value evaluation and demonstrate higher value in other ways. If in direct game all she has to go off of are your looks/body language, in indirect game she has any DHV stories you tell, your conversational skills, your humor, your body language, etc. Remember that looks matter a lot less to women than they do for men; with indirect game you can undo any lower value the target has assigned you because of your looks.

I see the merit of direct game, but I also see the problems that come from guys trying out direct over indirect.

So basically, you agree with me...

Direct game is for people with a strong outside but indirect game is for people with a strong inside...

Yes, I agree, but I don't think that direct game is a purely AFC pursuit.

AFCs use crude methods of both direct and indirect game. Indirect game from an AFC is made up of interview questions and boring conversation that he hopes will get under her radar, but fails for obvious reasons. Direct game from an AFC means pickup lines, calling her baby, catcalls, petitioning her for sex, etc.

A PUA using direct game keeps certain things in mind that better his chances of success. While an AFC might approach a 10 with direct game on a pure gamble, a PUA realizes that direct most likely isn't going to work.

This is the whole foundation of MM and most other methods. Yeah, I can use direct game on a girl who I look better than because, in the realm of body language and looks I automatically have higher value. But for guys who aren't models or celebrities, indirect game was devised as a way to avoid premature evaluations from the target.

That's wrong.

Thats informative...

So what is your opinion?

1. Mystery PUA's need to get IOI's.

2. Direct game does not rely on outside factors, it does not rely on you providing value,

Direct approach- "you look fantastic I am going to get too know you tell me something about yourself" She has to qualify to you, and you have stayed dominant by using assertive word-choice.

Most AFC's don't have the balls to do this, ask any girls you want about the above the approach, they would all respnd positively if a guy said that to them.


It takes incredible inner game. Indirect game does not require this, (however it helps tremendously) as it is indirect.

3. Indirect/Direct/both rock it anyway you want.

Direct approach - You're telegraphing interest based on nothing more than her looks, a turn off for most women. "You looked interesting, I just had to come talk to you" translates to "You're pretty hot, I'm going to talk to you and seem interested in hopes of taking you home later." This is why EVERY method discourages compliments and drink buying and all of that, because the girl has done nothing to win your approval. You are making yourself seem desperate and easy when you walk around handing out praise when she hasn't done anything.

And AFCs use direct approach to an extreme. It does take a lot of inner game, but go to any bar and count the number of AFCs walking around like they own the place, yelling at women across the bar, etc. Direct game is an AFC favorite, they just do it in a stupid way.

Also, while direct game does telegraph some degree of confidence to the girl, I've found that it makes them much more likely to get aggressive, throw on bitch shields and try to knock you off your pedestal. The thought process is, "Who does this guy think he is being so up front with me? Does he think he's better than me? I'll show him." HB's aren't dumb. When you approach someone directly you're operating under the assumption that your body language and looks are enough to hook them, which is insulting for some HBs.

You compliment on looks it's honest, but nothing else, you make it clear that you have selected her based on looks, now she is going to have to prove she has the right personality before you take her home.



Desperate and easy is shown through body language even you should know that communication is only 10% word choice. Direct doesn't get you to buy her a drink, becuase then you become sub-ordinate, your getting mixed up with direct approach and becoming subservant becuase she looks good. You're simply aknowledging that you approached becuase she looks good, your not doing anything else.


AFC's don't approach, naturals do and even most of those guys use an indirect game, seriously ask around you'll find that a proper text book direct approach occurence is extremely rare. Naturals don't know what makes a direct approach attractive and what doesn't, thus their approach is unreliable as they don't know what variables to look for.
Your body laungauge is a demonstration of the value in your personality, your not expecting them to hook on you for looks, your just going to get too know eachother and your going to let your personality win them over.

Also it's called a shit test, their trying to figure out if your direct approach is the real Mcoy or just a fake, after the first two they usually fall straight into your hands, infact many girls don't give shit tests if you do it properly.

You seem to have quite askewed visions of direct game, much like myself a month or two back.

Yes, I agree but frankly I have not mastered it to such an amount that I can run direct game as successfully as indirect. Do you have any tricks and hints for specific body language that shows value?
This is just not true. AFCs do approach, ok they sometimes get drunk in order to dare do it. Sometimes they rub up against the girl on the dance floor or other horrible approaches like that.
In my AFC days I used to approach all the time, just with a compliment, she thanks you and ignores you...

In my experience, naturals follow the M3 model without knowing it, more or less. Or they look very good so girls approach them. (No I did not want to sound bitter.)

1. AFC's walk up compliment on looks/buy drinks/becomes submissive/ become subordinate/have no frame control/are reactive/compliment when not needed/show bad body language

Only one of those is a component in direct game, giving a compliment on looks does not = direct game. Direct game is being honest, being forward, not being ashamed of your agenda as a man and knowing that men and women have sexual cravings + barefaced charm and charisma.

2. Most of the time it's eye contact and voice tonality, strong eye contact combined with a controlled well paced clear voice is enough to melt any Bitch shield and make almost any girl immediatly react positively. That and standard good BL.

Any other questions?

(please note my personal style I have been developing is a combination of Indirect Game and Direct Game not purely Direct Game)