There's this girl I've been talking to for about four years now, and I consider her a best friend, she [supposedly] considers me the same to her. She always asks me for advice, and I always give her an honest opinion, blah blah blah. Onto the point...

I was texting her the other day, and asked what she was doing. She did one of those name-drop type things, "hanging out with my fiance". I think she told me that she was engaged before, but I don't remember it well. Anyways, that upset me quite a bit, because she always asks me for advice about him after an argument or whatever, which isn't an occasional thing, it happens fairly often. She says she's close to breaking it off, and I tell her to do what she wants. I don't want to tell her to break up with him, because that could mess up a lot of things [my friendship with her, he'd probably be angry, etc].

I've done the oneitis thing once before with my first real girlfriend, and then I learned not to trust people so much and haven't really done it since. But this girl has been constantly on my mind since I met her. It's not like oneitis, I'm not obsessed and I don't have a problem going for another girl. It's just that I don't want her to be engaged to some guy that is less than she deserves, and I want her to know that I want to give her what she deserves.

Also, she drinks often and I don't. I think it has a lot to do with her fiance. Should I not try for it, or should I try and maybe get her to tone it down a bit?

Any ideas at all? I don't want to wait til it's too late, so help would be appreciated..

Leave it alone, you've been LJBFed. You're the nice guy she goes to when she wants to complain about her fiance, even if she does break up with him she'll get with someone else that you'll see as an asshole and you'll get burned all over again.

That's assuming there's nothing I can do to change it. I want to change it, I know there's a way.

Do a cost-benefit analysis. First she would have to break up with her fiance, then you would have to work to undo all of the things that got you into the friend zone, then you'd have to convince her to risk your friendship by going out with her. Not only is that all pretty unlikely, but the pay off is relatively small. Why not find a different girl that requires 90% less work and could give you all the things you want from this one?

On the issue of her being unhappy with her fiance, this is what people in LTRs do. They complain about their partners to other people; it doesn't mean they're fundamentally unhappy with them.

This is especially problematic for guys who are in the friend zones with girls because they hear all this stuff and convince themselves that they know what's better for the girl, they can make the girl happy, and the guy she's with is an asshole.

So they become a white knight who passive aggressively reinforces all the bad things the girl says about her partner, then they try to act on it, the girl realizes what's going on and the guy seems creepy.

Sorry, it's not in the cards. It's not that big of a deal anyway, with a different girl you can put in a much smaller amount of effort, have a greater chance with her and deal with less drama. If she DOES break up with her fiance and you're willing to risk it, by all means go for it. Just don't let it preoccupy your mind right now as there is little chance that she's going to break up with this dude.

Hahaha well complaining is one thing, but she's about to break it off with the guy. I'm not trying very hard to reinforce what she says, because I don't know the guy well and I don't talk shit about people without their knowing.

It's just that I always wanted a chance to date this girl, we've said a lot of things to each other that we've never acted on because of bad timing. I just wanted a chance before she does something I'd regret.

So, after reading your little disclaimer, I still want to know what I can do. Say you were in the situation and you wanted the girl how I do. How would you try for it?

I would stop reinforcing her complaints about her fiance. It's supplication to agree with everything she says or to offer support. You have to stop being the "friend" that she runs to whenever she wants to be comforted.

I would throw in a few disqualifiers so that once she does break up with him she doesn't think that you're trying to make a move. For example, take the fiance's side when she comes to you complaining about him. Suggest that maybe she is at fault for some of this.

Wait for several weeks after they break up and then hang out with her. Start the standard stuff. DHV, disqualify, push/pull, etc. Make it seem spontaneous, she shouldn't know that you've been pining for her this whole time.

It's tricky because now you have to be the asshole for a little while. You can't offer her too much support in getting over the break up or else she'll become addicted to that comfort and want to keep you as a friend. You can't take the asshole thing too far because she'll probably be upset for a long time after breaking up with a fiance and you could end up pushing her away.

Hey m8, I'm here with some happy news to tell you that stepping out of the LJBF scene is possible, no matter how long your friendship have been.
Just next time when she comes to tell you about one of her problems, say something funny like "Hey, I ain't your emergency telephone!"

Well, heres how I did it... It was quite stupid and dangerous way but anyway, with luck, it worked quite like a charm for me. Heres what I basically did:

First, I turned up gaming on her and gamed her like every other girl.

Well after about a month or two, I somehow got her angry to me because she found out about all my other girls (she goes totally wild and tells my friends some gay stuff about me, crazy shit huh? anyway).

Now she is angry to me and tries to force me back to the LJBF-zone by saying that she doesn't want me to game her and other shit stuff like that.

Well right now I thought I had completely lost it, and I just cool her down and tell her that it isn't "gaming", its more like learning to speak to women, and if she thinks she can change me that easily, well shes wrong.

Now something goes *snap* in her head as I continue my gaming on her, I notice that I ain't in her LJBF-zone anymore, or at least thats what I could figure from the massive IOI flood and conversation which went straight from our fight to sex...


Also right now, I think that its never too late to game anyone, no matter who she is. I even gamed succesfully today this HB7 who hated me, because a month ago I ditched her and gamed her friend... Well anyway Good luck.

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There is NO secret ingredient. Theres just you.

I agree, it is possible to get out of the zone but it takes time and effort.

I never said I always agree with her complaints, I hardly know the guy. If he's obviously being hypocritical about something, I say it. If she fucks up, I call her on it too.

Thanks for the advice though, I figured I'd just need to do some push-pull on a bigger scale.

Too me it sounds like there's just a bunch of sexual tension between you two and she wants a reason to break it off with her fiance so go caveman on the bitch the next time you see her. Meet her with a strong sexual energy and kino the shit out of her and fuck the living hell out of her.

You care too much about the fiance's feelings.

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I'm addicted to facing my fears.

Hahaha sounds good. I failed to mention that she kissed me once, I didn't expect it so I couldn't kiss back. But the attraction is definitely there.

What do you suggest I work on with talking? I can put the convo in a sexual frame fairly easily, so I can direct it whichever way I want.
As for that, I'd disagree. I hardly know him, and I've never really cared for him as a person.