I originally posted this at SoSuave. Since I'm feeding from this tree of knowledge as well as that one, it's only fair I spread what fertilizer I have to offer. Enjoy.

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Long time reader, first time caller.

After reading a handful of threads on this board and the entire section on online dating experiences from the main page, I have come to the conclusion that a great deal of you have no clue what you're doing when it comes to utilizing online dating sites and personals. Not that you can be blamed, it's a different kind of jungle out there and I'm just now discovering what works after two years of falling on my face both online and in person. There's a lot of disinformation out there, and some of you are coming into the online realm with it. One of the worst assumptions out there is that you should take your time while meeting girls online. This is wrong, wrong, wrong, and I'll talk about it later. I'll talk about a lot of things. I'm covering a lot of ground here.

So who the hell am I? AFC currently making strides to convert into a PUA/DJ. Successfully at that. Confidence and shyness are rarely problems for me, but the words and actions required to attract the type of woman that interests me have evaded me for years. To compensate, I turned to online dating where I can scan a woman's personality and interests before initiating contact and in turn, tailor words in her favor, and refer her to my own page where my own personality is put on display in a wonderful sterling frame. Using writing skills, I was able to enhance every wonderful quirk and feature of my personality upfront whereas in reality they don't shine so bright and often go under the radar. I've been using dating sites and personals for two years. My success with women while on dates has been nonexistent, but this I blame on my AFC ways which I am now changing.

The difference between me and most people using these venues is that the women come to me and I meet them in person. And they have been quality women. Smart, funny, beautiful, dark, and very cultured. Some have even written into me saying that they're not looking for a relationship at all (They are) but read my profile, and wanted to tell me how wonderful it was and how they wish me the best of luck. Last month I went three dates with girls that contacted ME. One drove out from Tampa to see me, half a state away. It's the eighth of September, and I've already gone on two dates.

I can help you get that far using the internet, but from there you're on your own. I have dozens of received messages in my OKCupid box and I receive an average of 5-7 responses every time I post my personal on Craigslist.

Online dating: A perfect idea on paper.

But hey, so is communisim.

The system has its flaws.

Attention Hoes: The ratio of males to females on these dating sites is way out of whack. As a result, a lot of the woman that hang around for a long time on these sites are simply there to take in as much attention as they possibly can without really going anywhere with anyone. Some would say the women are overloaded with options and so they simply don't feel the need to pick anyone. That may be the case with some of the women on these sites, but don't let a few rotten eggs make you think the rest of the carton is no good. There are ways to screen these women.

No Rapport: No matter how much you talk to someone online, you're back at ground zero once you finally meet them in person. You have to build up value all over again, and with less material than you had before. This issue is side stepped easily as well.

Lady Could be a Dude: Yeah...well...these are just the risks you take. In my experience, all of the women I've met have been very honest about who they are and used an up to date picture. Perhaps I'm recognizing red flags in other profiles that most of you are missing? I'll talk about profiles I'm leery of.

Girl Could Have a Boyfriend: So could anyone else you pickup...and this doesn't seem to be a big problem to a lot of people here anyways. This has happened to me. It's not fun. After meeting a girl in person, you should expect her to be as open with you about her life as she would be if you originally met her in person. Remember: You have as much a right to be wary of her as she does of you. You're qualifying HER. This has not changed.

The Profile

This is the backbone of your success with online dating and you're selling yourself short if you churn it out, put it up, and leave it at that. Your profile should be an extension of you. It should be a reflection of your philosophies, your tastes in all things cultural, your sense of humor, your style, who you are, and what you're looking for. It has to have ENERGY, ENERGY, ENERGY! Be open, be honest, and be cocky funny. Show some attitude and swagger. show some heart. Show that you're human and genuine. My online personal has had a lot of success where I've placed it because I've spent two years editing it. It's had many revisions and every few weeks I change a line or two. In this way, writing a profile is a lot like writing a poem, a book, or a short story: It's never finished. There's always room for improvement, and you should seek it out. There's always a little bit more, or a little bit less to say about yourself. You cannot afford for your profile to look like everyone else. Read men's profiles, and find out what cliches are used and then avoid them. Every site has their own brand due to the different way the information fields are arranged. At the end of this post I'll include a link to my Craigslist posting and tell you what segments have been well received or useful.

One more thing. Online dating sites and personals are often used as a crutch for the desperate man with no social skills. Remember: YOU ARE NOT THIS GUY! If you do not express this somehow in your profile, it will be assumed. You're not online because you're desperate, you're online because you're looking for someone with a distinct personality (Which I am, personally). You're looking for someone with the right kind of energy. You're looking for someone who's tired of the club scene. You're online because you haven't met what you're looking for in real life, not because no one else would have you. DO NOT be whiny and say "I'm using this site because all the women I meet in club are teh suxxors." Do NOT be negative about the women you meet in your day to day life. A girl is more likely to assume the problem lies with you rather than the rest of the world. But don't forget, YOU ARE QUALIFYING THEM!

You can use the same profile on a variety of websites, so make it the best profile there is.

I recommend leaving an instant message screename in your profile. A lot of people prefer to make first contact this way.

Profile cliches

These are not always written exactly the same as I will show you, but I see them all the time in one variety or another. Avoid them.

"I'm often shy at first but I'm very warm and friendly once you get to know me."

"I'm the most funny/interesting/weird/quirky person you'll ever meet!"

"I'm not very good at writing about myself" or "I'm never sure what to write for these things..."

"If you want to know anything more, just ask!" (Never. They will never follow up and ask. They have no incentive to. You tell them about yourself then and there, soldier.)

_________________
Life is no less funny when someone dies than it is less serious when someone laughs. -- George Bernard Shaw

No One's Messaging Me! and What Should I Say?

Have the rules changed for online dating? Not by much. It's still your responsibility to do the approaching. Be a man. You will be ignored, rejected, and burnt up, and usually there won't be a sound from any of it. You will be rejected not with a bang, but a whisper. Rather than lamenting this, take comfort in it. It's a lot easier to swallow than being rejected in person. Invest thought into your messages, but not emotion. Responses will be more common than received messages. Received messages will come in due time, but it often takes a while. You can't expect five messages in a week. Usually they come a month here, a month there...sometimes quicker than that if you're putting up a new picture and arouse some interest from longtime members. If you're having no luck, eyeball your profile and tweak it until it squeals.

In the meanwhile, you send out those messages.

A good message will be roughly a paragraph long. Unless you're making a great joke or making an interesting reference to something in her profile, anything shorter than that will come off as lazy. One of the biggest complaints women have with online dating sites are the short, boring messages they receive. A longer message can make you appear desperate or appear as though you're trying too hard...these are rules of thumb. I have prompted conversation with a long message with favorable results.

A message should do three things:
--Show appreciation for her profile and personality
--Express common interest and/or similarities
--Show value
--Show interest

It's very easy to do bungle any one of these things.

While showing appreciation, be careful not to place her too high on any pedestal or go to far out on your compliments. She has a cool hat in her picture. Her writing style makes Hunter S Thomspon look sober and sane. You think it's awesome she loves Army of Darkness, or Lost Skeleton of the Cadavera. She is not a Goddess, and you are not a monk. Make playful observations about her that she would like. I rarely compliment anyone on their appearances. I would advise against it for the first message in most cases. She knows you're attracted, otherwise you wouldn't be writing. But that's just me.

When expressing common interests and similarities, show don't tell. What I mean by this, is that you should not say "Hey, I dig your taste in music. I also really dig Incubus, The Killers, and Flogging Molly" This looks tryhard and like you're trying to qualify yourself for her. Say "Did you see Flogging Molly at the Florida Music Festival? They were here not too long back...Man, they know how to put on a show. Up until the moment they were on stage, they were drinking with me and all their other fans. Good stuff!". Don't sound too excited. Coming across with an attitude of "OMG WE LIKE THE SAME STUFF MEBE WE B SOLEMATEZ!1!!1?!!" will scare her off.

You can show value in many different ways. There is no one way to be a wonderful person. Quality is a way of life. You don't have to talk about the time you killed a lion with your bare hands. Write well. Try your best to avoid typos, grammar errors, and use proper punctuation. An intelligent message with an intelligent profile will attract intelligent women. On top of that, be funny. Be a smartass, be interesting, be experienced. You're a wonderful, well spoke, well traveled man. Show it....but don't tell.

Cement everything else with interest and perhaps some qualifying questions. Has she ever been to any of your favorite places? What are her favorite places? You both like Italian food, but you haven't found any good restaurants. Has she? Maybe you have some questions about the philosophy she was jabbering about. Ask.

Oh, and whenever you mention sex you're walking on eggshells. Mentioning it in the context of an over the top joke has proven safe.

When to Ask Her Out and How

Very shortly after making contact with her, and you don't.

A lot of failures with hitting it off properly with a girl online can be attributed to not asking a girl out correctly. This particular aspect of online dating is more complicated than you'd think. Allow me to elaborate.

It appears the common belief on this website is that you should take your time while courting someone online. This is wrong as hell! I did this for a very long time and I can't tell you how many dates it lost me. You go for that invitation the moment you decide you like her, and that she's at least worth the time to meet! Have a idea of what you want to do with her drawn up ahead of time, and shoot. Let me share with you something that took me TWO YEARS to learn: women don't want to spend time online speaking with you. They really don't. Most of them aren't as concerned about the whole meeting strangers online thing as you think, and like most things, how they feel with you is very much up to how you act around them. Waiting a long time to mention meeting because you want her to feel safe is akin to saying "Hey, buckle up, I might get into a horrible car accident resulting in untold carnage" before a girl gets in your car. She may have considered that, but she doesn't want to hear it. The QUICKER you invite her out, the BETTER. Since I've stood behind this maxim my online dating has tripled.

And don't ask her out. Oh, and you're not going to ask her out. Tell her to go out with you. Try it, you'll be amazed at the results. "Maybe"s and "I'm sorta busy"s turn into "OK"s.

Repeat after me: Hey, you're pretty chill. I've been wanting to play raquetball and have been eyeballing the new recreation center they just built. Come with me.

But before you say that there's a very useful disclaimer you MUST USE! Pay attention! This is important. This one line will prove useful beyond words. It's magic. Repeat after me: "Hey, I know we're both using an online dating site, but I'm really personable guy, and over the internet is no way to get to know someone..."

Followed by...: You're pretty chill. I've been wanting to play racquetball and I have been eyeballing the new recreation center they just built. Come with me.

What does this line do? For starters, in installs a sense of well...sense. Good common sense. Talking to someone online really is no way of getting to know someone. I've had nothing but agreements from girls here. If it didn't occur to them before they signed up onto a dating sight, it will occur to them now. No matter how long you speak to someone, the chances of them actually being a 67 year old halfbreed between a monkey and a man as well as a sea pirate as opposed a 23 year old graduate and surfer does not change one bit. Time will only give a woman more time to start having doubts about who you are, it will rarely increase trust and a desire to meet you.

If you feel this is a bit too bold, or that a girl might be especially wary of meeting someone online, tell her to meet you at a public cafe or bookstore, and afterwards you'll continue your date elsewhere. Or sometimes it helps to end the "Personable Guy" line with a drop of your phone number. Tell her to call you. After you spend some time on the phone (whatever feels right to you), then invite her out. Maybe even revise the "Personable Guy" line if it feels right to you. "Like I said, I'm a personable guy. I really don't care for hiding behind a computer of phone all day, I like to get out...."


What activity should the invitation include?

Same rules for dates apply here, but for the first date make sure you're inviting her out to something that can take place on any day of the week and is available throughout the day and perhaps night. A lot of girls do online dating because they have tight schedules, so while they may be impressed by your idea of taking her out to a Comedy Hypnosis dinner show, she will ultimately turn the idea down which leaves you fishing for new ideas on the spot. Have a few ideas in mind, and use which ever one you like best.

_________________
Life is no less funny when someone dies than it is less serious when someone laughs. -- George Bernard Shaw

Qualify, Weed, Qualify
Who to avoid.

Profiles with "Myspace Angles". If her only pictures are from top down, half of her side, down up, and a close up of her face, she probably isn't in the best of health. I have been wrong.

Profiles in which the girl looks like a professional model in each and every picture. The profile usually includes a short account of typical interests mixed in with raunchy interests. She probably isn't real.

Anyone advertising sex sex sex. They're either an Ad-bot for a adult personals site or they're very, very unattractive.

Attention trollops. I mentioned these girls before, remember? A girl doesn't have to be an attention hoe just because she declined your invitation out, but often at times the one's most resilient about meeting in person really aren't looking for anything worthwhile. They will waste your time. When dating online, ask someone out once, and move on. It's very easy to waste time on one person over the internet just to have that person stop responding to you. Don't let this happen. Let my invitation method weed these girls out.

Sites to Behold

OkCupid.com
As far as design goes, this one is by far the best. Thousands of tests, questions, and qualifying gibberish that shows you how compatable you are with someone else and allows you to really see what someone else is made of. Plus, we know how much girls like pop psychology quizzes. This site is loaded with them. OKCupid is filled with a large variety of counter culture, suicide esque girls. Or even if they're not that, they still have more personality, intelligence, style, and humor than the girls at most other sites I've come across. I belong to another message board in which many members met their wives and husbands over OkCupid. Personally, I've gotten some good dates out of it and have even made longterm friends. And no, they weren't from me being placed into the friend's zone.

PlentyofFish.com
The best thing I can say about this site is that it's free, and there's plenty of profiles on it to sift through. The quality of the women isn't as good as OkCupid's but there's a diamond here and there. Likewise, the choice of men on POF isn't that great either, so a great profile stands out for as long as you have it up there. It takes little effort and time to copy and post your OkCupid profile to another site. Start one up just in case you catch the eye of someone likeminded. A lot of times feedback comes when you least expect it.

Craigslist.com
I've actually gotten more dates out of Craiglist since I've started using it three months ago than I have from any other site. It's a really wonderful tool. Sure the personals written by women are terrible, and sure the personals written by men are just as terrible and perhaps even worse. That does NOT mean that very smart, attractive people aren't reading through the personals. A lot of people read them for ****s and giggles. I've had responses from people that only read the personals for a cheap laugh only to message me and tell me what a surprise mine was. Just like with POF, since most of the entrees are lame, yours will stand out(!) shoulders and shoulders above everyone else. Not only that, but the entire Craigslist audience rolls over completely about once every fifteen days from my estimates. You never run out of readers so long as you post your personal once a week.

My Personal, and What Makes it Work

http://orlando.craigslist.org/m4w/412092930.html

"For starters, I'm not looking for someone to love me. I love myself plenty. I understand a relationship is supposed to enhance your life, not make or break it. I'm looking for someone to love. When I think about an ideal relationship, most of my thoughts veer towards what I'd like to provide for the other person. Things I'd cook, restaurants I'd take her out to, theme parks we'd go to, impromptu road trips we'd take, favors I'd like to pay. I really think the desire to provide for someone else is one of the major hallmarks of maturity, and it is one I look for in people I spend time with. And so by extension of that I guess I'm...looking for someone to love me? No one ever said this dating thing would make sense. Hah. Anyways, onward with my description"

Women love this. It conveys everything that lets them know I can stand on my own two feet, am not looking for someone to "complete me", am a provider, and will be the one qualifying THEM for a cahnce to spend time with ME. Sentences seven and eight allow me to outright tell someone to take ME out. I've yet to do this, but I'm interested in trying it out. Because of the way I've phrased those particular lines, I can't imagine it would make me lose standing with anyone. I am in fact, looking to be provided for as well as I provide. If a girl doesn't even have an idea of what she would like to do for me after contacting me, she's obviously not the girl for me.

The bit where I mention my multiple lines of lineage has spurred a lot of responses where people tell me what their heritage is. The lines where I talk about what I LOVE is outright monkyed in many responses as the girls try to align with my personality before we even meet. I get a lot of responses about "driving down to the keys at the drop of a hat". Something I actually did once with a friend.

These are the parts that stand out. Everything else is taken into consideration and appreciated, but not outright mentioned as much.

The pictures are a good mix. They show my interest and skill in photography, my adventerous side, and me just standing there looking like me on any given day. I'd suggest you go for a healthy variety as well.

That's all for now. I'll be around for whatever if there's responses. Good luck

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Life is no less funny when someone dies than it is less serious when someone laughs. -- George Bernard Shaw

nice post

awesome post man, I agree with everything... I'm between jobs right now and low on funds so I've been sarging online to make up for it... You're right about the profile being an ongoing piece of work, it can always be improved... also with telling the girl to go on a date verse asking, AFC's ask, PUA's tell a girl, they're programmed to take orders from a man... and a scientific study found women are 66% more likely to agree if you tell her because or give her a reason. "Lets go out to dinner" isn't nearly as effective as "Lets go out to dinner, I know a great Italian restaurant..." She can see herself eating fettucinni alfredo and sipping wine with you in her head making it all the more desirable... also with asking her out right away, you're not giving yourself a chance to fuck it up online, her meeting someone else, getting bored with you or getting stuck in the friend zone... Plus it portrays confidence.

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any Man can sweep any Woman off her feet, you just have to have the right broom...

I pretty much used your profile you wrote on here except for changing a word or two to fit me better and put it on plentyoffish.com... its almost unfair, I've had 5 girls contact me in the last 3 days and already had two good dates with one... should be able to f-close in the next date or two... whats really been a good hook is for the perfect date I wrote how dinner and a movie is boring and I'd prefer dance classes or cooking classes... these girls eat that shit up man, they love it...

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any Man can sweep any Woman off her feet, you just have to have the right broom...

Great Post JoeSki!

The link to your carigslist profile has expired, do you have a new one to reference?

Here you go:

http://orlando.craigslist.org/m4w/460393268.html

That should be good for a few more weeks.

_________________
Life is no less funny when someone dies than it is less serious when someone laughs. -- George Bernard Shaw

On one of my profiles im testing out being picky...for example: "I only like blondes, you must be at least 5 foot 6, and you have to be fun" so far it has yielded some interesting results

It's been over half a year since I've posted this thread and I decided to take a moment to revise and update it.

I'm no permanent fixture on this board. It's been months since I've even logged in. I'm not even sure if you'd call me a PUA, but at this point I'm no AFC either. I'm a guy who met a adorable redhead with two college degrees online and who has been in a great relationship for five months now filled with homemade cookies, great sex (take THAT virginity!) impromptu road trips, and tree climbing. I'm quite satisfied with that.

Despite all this, it has been a regret of mine for a while that this compilation of advice and information I've left sitting around has been without certain methods and procedures I've picked up after my initial posting. I've known for a while that this thread is still being read, and I really dislike the idea of guys just like my former self beating their heads against a wall over stuff I've long figured out.

The two main additions you'll find is an Order of Online Dating Operations, and a select few private messages I sent out on OKCupid that got responses. Also, since I'm no longer posting on Craigslist, I've copied and pasted my old CL post onto my PlentyofFish profile so that it can be used an as example. You can view it here:

http://www.plentyoffish.com/member3218953.htm

I hope you enjoy and find it worthwhile.

-- JoeSki

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Life is no less funny when someone dies than it is less serious when someone laughs. -- George Bernard Shaw

ye its not hard to pick up online as long as you know the person a little bit before!!

Private Message Samples

Subtle and Concise

And yeah, I laughed. (In response to something in her profile)

You sound like you may be like minded. You enjoy writing stories, reading, and vulgarity. But ah! Do you have the same energy? The same attitude? I wonder...what's the craziest thing you ever did on a whim? Would you ever consider putting a live alligator in someone's bathroom for a practical joke? If you were watching a dinner show and the performers were asking for a volunteer would you sink back into your chair or would your thrust your hand up into the air and say "Me! Oh pick me! Me! Me!"

Inquiring minds and all that.

You can so eat a spoonful of cinnamon (In response to something in her profile)

I have done it. I will SHOW you.

But perhaps an introduction is in order. My name is Joseph. I'm a free spirited culture junky, and I think we might have a bit in common. The free spirited culture junky thing for starters.

Plus, I'd like to see what you can do with a blank piece of paper and a pencil.

Yes I am honest, cute...

...and perhaps messaging you for more than just the hell of it.

I think you have a very endearing personal. You appear to be very easy going and a total culture junky like me. Plus, you can count on a Naturas girl being pretty hip.

But then I wonder...do you do The Enzian? Austens Cafe? Do you enjoy Winter Park's outside screening of classic movies? Or are these things you've yet to experience?

Inquiring minds and all that...Write me back!

A Most Dazzling profile

It's pretty gosh darn succulent. It's the green tea frappachino with blackberry syrup of OKcupid profiles. Originating from traditional methods and ideas and then warped into something cool, frosty, and refreshing. Like a good book, you can pick up from the middle and it's just as good as starting from the beginning.

So, do I ask for your aim screen name or do I follow you down a back alley and be all like "Hey, does this rag smell like chloroform to you?" The choice is yours.

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Life is no less funny when someone dies than it is less serious when someone laughs. -- George Bernard Shaw

Online Dating Order of Operations

No matter how hard you try to make it into one, dating is and will forever be an art, not a science. There are no universal truths in dating. However, like most arts, there are rules of thumb. Even if there's an exception to these rules, the rules are still pretty damned useful by and large. And that's what The Online Order of Operations is. A rule. A Guideline. It's what streamlined my approach to online dating and maximized the number of girls I met on any given week. It's a ladder of trust you provide for a girl who has never met you and build to fit inside a week, or even a day. Using it, I typically met women within a few hours of them sending me a instant message. It's essentially this:

Private Message or Two on Dating Site > Instant Message conversation > Phone Call > Live Meeting

Let's take a good look at each step, shall we?

Private Message or Two

Since many times online encounters go straight to instant messaging this is an optional step and not always in play, but in cases it is prevalent it is very important. Given the choice, you want to skip this step. But if you can't...

Spend a message being charming, funny, inquisitive, and generally wonderful. If she responds well to that, ask her if she has an IM screename cause hey, you'd like to get to know her. It's too soon for her to take much initiative, so don't give her yours and expect her to send you a message. Ask for hers and make a move whenever you see her online. I've never been sensitive about messaging too soon or waiting too long. IM whenever you like; this shouldn't make a difference.

Note: Do not ask for her phone number here. Do not use the Personable Guy line here. DO NOT ASK TO MEET HER FROM HERE!* Climb the ladder of trust!

Ok, I've gotten away with doing this when my connection was down, and I actually ended up meeting my girlfriend...but breaking these rules will hurt your odds.

Instant Message Conversation

This step should last somewhere between one and two hours, either all at once or broken up. You should be very engaging here, this is the part where you really win her over and prove you're good for conversation! If you've made it past an hour with her and you're not getting any negative vibes from her, it's a good bet that she's into you enough for you to move into the next step. Remember that "Personable Guy" line I was telling you about before? That goes here:

You: I'm enjoying this conversation, but can we move this over onto the phone? I know I have my profile here online but I'm really a Personable Guy and find it hard to get a sense of who someone is just by reading their writing. Why don't you call me? My number is XXX-XXX-XXXX.

Her: Mmm...I don't know. I'm not sure about trading my phone number with people over the internet...

You: Yeah, I understand, but we're really not going to get to know each other any better by sitting here in front of our monitors. I mean, the chances of me being a 300 pound underwear sniffing sea pirate really don't decrease with extra time spent sending messages.

Her: Hahaha. I guess you have a point. Ok.

You: *phone rings*

Phone Call

Congratulations! You sir, are in like Flynn, as they so often say. While your anxieties will be running the most high during this part, it is actually the easiest step of them all. If a girl has come this far with you, she'll forgive a little awkwardness on your part and will probably meet you even if you're totally fucking goofy. Trust me. For some reason if a girl is willing to speak with you on the phone she'll figure you're also worthwhile and trustworthy enough for a live meeting. All you have to do is stay on the phone and be a competent human being (albeit one with a sense of humor) for 10-20 minutes. That's it.

Now because this part is almost always awkward, I highly suggest you have some topics of conversation to talk about. Don't have any? Well, go to http://www.fark.com and/or http://www.digg.com and grab something interesting from there. Write them down. Or don't. Try focusing on her if you have enough information about her. Whatever you do, between 10 and 20 minutes, you'll want to ask her out. Why not? If she has the time to talk to you that means she is available!

But how?

The Live Meeting

The first meeting should be, or at least begin as, something akin to a coffee date. What you have here are two people meeting each other for the first time. This is pretty weird for both people, and both people might want to bail out, or not find their head as a part of some guy/girls collection in a freezer. So here's what you say

You: "Hey listen, I gotta go [insert reason here] but in bit I'd really like to go grab a cappuccino. You should join me."

Her: "Oh yeah? When are you leaving? Cause I have this thing I need to take care of."

You: "Whenever. I have a few chores around the house I need to tackle but I don't have anything on my schedule tying me down tonight. I was just looking to get out later. Why don't I tackle my laundry, and you call me back when you know when you can get out of dodge?"

Her: "Ok!"

You: "And bring something interesting! For show and tell. I want to be entertained."

Her: *laughs* ooooook.

You: "You laugh. I'm brining a statue my Grandpa left me. You'll love it. I'll see you then!"

Personally, I like caffeine. It is by far my favorite drug. And I like cafes. But screw this cafe. You and your drink ARE NOT the real goal here. If you and the girl hit it off, you're going to drop the location like so many hot potatoes and go for a walk, visit the movie set behind the local film school, go into the woods and stumble upon Narnia, go to a restaurant, see a band, crash some local apartments swimming pool, visit another part of town, kill each other's fiances....whatever! The ball is in you're court from here. Enjoy and good luck. You've gone from first contact to a live meeting within two hours. Why should anything stop you now?

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Life is no less funny when someone dies than it is less serious when someone laughs. -- George Bernard Shaw

So useful thanks

Pretty damn good. I've had a lot of success on craigslist too, of all places. I'm definitely of the opinion that you should post rather than browsing and responding to women's posts.

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http://theuntouchablogs.blogspot.com