A lot of the stuff that is taught in pick-up is mostly useless. Many guys have no clue what they're on about, and they're just here to scam you out of your money. There are a few great guys that teach things that will get you laid and help you to improve, but a lot of the stuff they're trying to sell you is just bullshit.

Firstly there's the idea of not putting a girl on a pedestal, yet still being taught to cater to what a girl wants. These "gurus" tell you that you should be your own man, that you should be "alpha", and that you should make the girl work for you. You think these guys are helping you out, yet if you think about it all they are teaching you is to take a girl off of her pedestal (the one that mainstream society puts her one) and place her on another one.

Mainstream society teaches:
- Women are delicate flowers
- You have to be nice to women, pay them compliments, buy them flowers, take them on expensive dates
- You have to pursue and impress them
- You have to have a nice car and lots of money to get the hottest girls

Pick-up teaches:
- You have to game women, figure out what they want and give it to them. This is your job as a man
- Women screen guys and give shit tests so that they can tell which guys are worthy
- There are many different attraction switches you need to switch before a girl will be attracted to you
- Women will give you resistance before sex, its your job as a man to talk them into it
- To get the hottest girls you have to be a "high value guy" and tell DHV stories to make yourself sound cool

Think about it. By following this advice are you doing much different from a guy who knows nothing about pick-up? You're still trying your best to win the girl over, to cater to what she wants. This is just a more advanced form of ass-kissing, and guys are taking your money to teach you this.

The pick-up community also buys into womens' double-standards. Most people in the community never address what the girl does wrong. Anything that goes wrong is the man's fault, and he needs to figure out a way to improve his game:
- Girl says something bitchy when you approach - it's just a "bitch shield" she's putting up to get rid of weak guys. You have to plough through and find a way to get her to be nice, or you don't have very good game.
- Girl is unapproachable - it means she's picky - if a man is unapproachable, he's shy/socially inept. It's your job as a man to do the approaching
- Girl doesn't say much and can't initiate conversation - she's trying to test your ability to plough and lead. It's not that she's boring or bitchy
- Girl flakes on you - you just haven't attracted her enough. It has nothing to do with her being irresponsible
- Girl judges you on a stereotype and blows you out as soon as you approach - it just means she senses you're a weak man. Women are experts at this. Just improve your body language and approach as a "high value" "alpha" man
- Girl acts unpredictable and immature - that's just because women are emotional and men are logical. Women are more complicated than men, so you need to flip all of her attraction switches first
- Girl's friends always cockblock you- you need to win them over first (who cares what she thinks?)

What a load of bollocks. Imagine the same list, but this time it isn't a woman, it;s a child:
- Child says something rude - she needs to be taught to treat people with respect and be polite
- Child doesn't say much, can't initiate a conversation - she isn't mature enough
- Child doesn't turn up to something, flakes - she needs to learn to be more responsible and organised
- Child judges you on stereotype - she needs to be taught not to judge people on appearances
- Child acts unpredictable and immature - she needs to be disciplined and be more respectful
- Child needs friends' approval - she's too immature to think for herself

So really in the community, less is expected of women than children. What's that all about?

If you're not getting good, you need to approach, approach, approach. You need to get out "in the field" and use the "techniques" you've learned. It's a long process, for some it will take years, and you're not a good enough person yet to have the girls you want until you master this. These products are garunteed 100% to work for you, no matter how short, ugly, fat or bald you are, as long as you put the effort it. If they don't work for you, you're just not working hard enough. Maybe you should save up and go on a bootcamp? Yeah... Right.

There are guys that have made a lifestyle out of meeting and picking up women. How is this possible? By you taking their bootcamps. Here's how they see it:

"I will teach you how to be successful with women over a weekend for about $700 per person. That will make me enough money to travel to many different places, do more bootcamps and meet loads more women. Since I won't need a real job I'll also have the time and energy to do so. Due to the law of averages and exposure, and me being rich, this will result in me actually being successful with women. This will justify me teaching guys how to meet women and charging for it".

So yeah, a lot of it is bullshit. There are some great guys who teach good stuff that will help you, but most are just scammers. Be careful.

What's up your ass? Most of the pick up artists got to the point of teaching because they were AFC like everyone else. Until they decided to go out in the world and approach like hell. Test out what works and what doesn't. Sooner or later, they picked up patterns in picking up women. Eliminated the ones that did not work with women and kept the ones that did. Through trail and error they became "gurus". That's all a PUA is. They aren't GODS like you ignorantly thought they were. They are simply teaching you the DO's and DONT's with women.

And it really helps to boost the confidence of those AFC's that go into bootcamps with those gurus. Before that, they would never approach or do anything in their lives. Now they are taking action with the help of a professional. They aren't forcing you to join, they are simply asking.

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Want to increase your chances of day 2?
increase-the-chance-of-a-day-2-vt74638.html

Try giving women flowers and being "traditional", see how far that gets you.

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The best PUA advice is also the best fighting advice.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ijCSu87 ... rn-1r-4-HM

I'm not denying the fact that there may be scammers that use PUA to make money. However, if you want to state something like that you need FACTS to make a strong argument. Tell us how you got scammed, your experience, what you don't understand because without FACTS your just another troll sorry to say. I have a feeling that you are new to PUA, someone that learned and tested a couple of things that did not work and quickly coming to the conclusion that PUA is a scam. The only PUA material I've spent money on soo far is the book 'The Game' and I bought the book before I even knew what PUA was.

There are a few gurus that teach good stuff and have helped me a lot, I'm not saying they're ALL scam artists. But there are a lot of guys who teach things that are just out there to scam people out of their money. A lot of them make out like they're Gods, claiming hey can get ANY woman they want, and that they can teach you to too. I'm just writing this as a warning to newbies, cos I know I've spent way too much money when I first stated a few years ago on useless stuff.

Haha, true. But the stuff some people teach here are just as effective as the traditional approach. That's what I'm saying.

Good point. I'm not new to PUA, I've been into this stuff for about 4 years. I know what works and what doesn't. I can see through peoples' bullshit marketing. There are some great guys teaching this stuff who hav helped me become more successful with women, but a lot of them are just in it for the money. I'm sure you can tell which ones are like that too. But when I first started I spent way too much on products that didn't help me, and I fell for the bullshit. I'm just writing this to warn newbie to be careful, I don't think it's right to make money like that.

easy fix.....DONT PAY FOR ANYTHING

you can't be scammed if you never pay for anything.

I doubt anyone on these forums that give away free info are in it for the money, cause they aren't getting paid

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Every Saint has a Past, Every Sinner has a Future

No one is forcing you to pay for anything... You can give this scam argument about anything: you can spend thousands of dollars on gym equipment and still end up with worse results than a guy that does pushups and jogs in the park. You can pay for an expensive college and still end up with a worse job than some high school dropouts. My point is you know what you pay for and should assume your choices instead of complaining about it...

That....

This is the internet. The land of getting anything for free. Like spending any money on a product, it's always best to be well informed before you make a purchase. People can find out for themselves whether or not a person is a scammer just by doing a quick google search.

twat,

i agree with a lot of what you said. what you get with PUA's is a lot of conflicting information which means that there is not one method that works.

the only thing that i think really works with women are two things:

having confidence
being somewhat of a challenge (meaning just enough of a challenge for her to keep coming back to you)

everything else is up in the air. from my own personal experience, negging doesn't always work. i've negged playfully and women do not respond to negs as much as people here think they do. when i neg a lot less, women respond better.

giving a girl less attention doesnt always work either. women respond better to me when i connect with them emotionally. when i m playful, they dont take me seriously.

people can say that I am not doing things the right way but i know I am. our experiences are just as credible as the PUA's and they are also feild tested.

Seriously, I still think women give the best advice. Be yourself and be confident. That is all it takes.

I never tell dhv stories, no routines, no openers. I just open with something like saying hi and start talking from there.

But I did learn things from pick up like lead the women, bring her into your world, etc... And these are some good advice also.

if you practice anything on a regular basis and learn the science behind it, you will get better at it... end of story.

is anything anyone says the gospel? no, but its your job to find out what ur version of the gospel is..

& of course everything is the guys fault.. The only way to improve is to take responsibility for the failed efforts... even if we had no control over them, its our job to adapt the best we can to gain control.

This!

Yeah, many gurus are commercialized sellouts... So just dont buy it then.

Apart from that, its up to everybody to choose to either take advice they get for free or dont take it. We wont be insulted.

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I'm not trying to be a dick Ezo, but you're being a Pick Up Snob in my opinion.

bbardot: you just reminded me about porn

yes and no

I mean an example is they have pua apps for iphones which has openers on and negs which you have to pay for . Its ridiculous

But their are a lot of honest pua's out there that are determined to help afc's out . But a guys got to make a living at the same time. Just stick to the main ones and you should be fine.