I found PUA to work well in the day time as if you come accross as confident, funny and qualifying the girl, I can end up with numbers and instant dates.

This works differently sometimes in nightgames especially in certain bars/clubs particularly in the UK i found that game worked better in America. If I just chat to a girl like a normal guy would rather than using an opener, time constraint or following a specific structure just forget I ever learned any PUA and go with the flow, and even compliment the girl a bit say she is sexy and grind on her and get her to grind on me, then that leads to mutual groping/kissing (a number close would be a flake from this), sometimes this can lead to F closes but is not consistent.

However when I try to use opinion openers in clubs people or try and be cocky and funny too much or use NEGS girls think you are being too weird/trying too hard and lose interest and you don't get as much action. Guys look at you and think what is that guy doing why does he have to do all this when everyone else can just walk up to girls and talk normally then take it from there.

In certain situations I think PUA can hold you back especially if it is used in a way that you think you are better than the other so called AFCs or that girls will magically start getting attracted to you because you NEGged them, it rarely works like that I have found. The biggest thing is being confident and having fun even if you do act like a bit of an AFC and get a little drunk things seem to work better and it is a lot easier. You still need some degree of social skills and boundaries. A little bit of cocky and funny can work but I find that if I tease a girl too much she gets fed up and walks off.

Has anybody else experienced PUA tactics holding them back in some way and that AFCs who were buying drinks and complimenting girls were getting more action until you started doing the same as them (depends on how you compliment them I have found and if you decide to buy them a drink if you like them and not straight away and just because they asked you to)?

It's like I should be leaning back and letting her come to me, screw this, bingo make out and then if this is near the end of the night it is a done deal. A lot of PUA stuff works but some of it doesn't, how do you distinguish between useful and useless tactics/mindsets to have?

maybe afc stuff works if you're tall and good looking, girls don't really give a fuck what you say then.

well what this post really is talking about, to me, is the difference between natural game and canned material. You just gotta remember that canned material and routines were originally taught to men in order to improve their ability to talk to women. Nowadays, openers, negs, etc. are for guys to practice and improve their confidence so that they have the courage to just walk up to women and start a conversation. They are like training wheels on a bike. You use them at first, but then you take them off and have even more fun riding (or crash, haha).

On another note, though, negs aren't meant to make a girl more attracted to you just by saying them. The idea is to let a girl know that you do not consider her to be a goddess. Negs are less useful for women who aren't 5 stars.

You may want to think that one again. Just because a guy is tall and physically attractive does not mean he will be able to get girls with no game.

this is call calebrating or honing your skills. PUA material is like ammunition for you to use. Its up to you how you use it and how its plays out. It aint PUA stuff thats holdiong you back, Its yourself. PUA material is like the basic ideas. like walking before you run. some people might start running and then it gets to sprinting. Its up to you on what you want to use. What might work well for another person. Doesnt work well with you. Canned material and routine , Yeah it works sometimes but that "AFC" guy just might have that cofidence to just walk up and say "HI my name is _____" WHY? cause he can pull it off.

The setting you are in also dictates how you should act. You are in a club/bar and how many times you think that girl has been approched before you saw her? Sometimes you dont have to NEg a girl. If she already attracted to you. Why neg her? WHY try to DHV. SHE already attracted to you. This is why you sometimes come off as a try hard. Use what works best for you, hone your skills.

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"Live life to the fullest, never look back, remember No regrets" J.f

If you remember two guys from Keys to the vip...one was diesel and the other was a male stripper. They both got results with almost no gaming. They just played it cool.

i know quite a few attractive guys who say the most stupid, boring predicatble shit to girls (or say nothing at all and have girls talk to them) and still get laid all the time. just because some puas can get laid without looks, doesn't mean that looks don't matter, that's a logical fallacy.

I only use canned material to get the woman talking. After that.. I just act natural. You have to modify your approach to match the setting otherwise you'll look stupid and come off fake.

Its important to keep in mind that 'night game' is a lot harder than day game. In bars and clubs women go out expecting male attention and knowing they will get hit on. Therefore, they respond differently to your advances. On top of that you have to compete with every other dick in the bar/club. Its really not the ideal setting to pick up women quickly. You DO have to talk to them longer and sometomes dance with them. Its more work. You can't just get in and get out in 2 minutes like you would during the day.

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Women are smarter than you think... but not as smart as THEY think

Playing it cool is pickup.

Define PUA.

I mean, do you mean the MM? Or the rest?

Going up to a girl running routines is PUA. Standing in a corner being afraid is not. Standing in a corner being entertained by your pivot is. If you get your inner game working you can say whatever andd still win, is that then AFC? No its PUA.
If you are good looking and trust only that is that PUA? No thats AFC.

I would say PUA is knowing what you are doing.


I recognize that thing about the game working differently in different parts of the world. It is true. You gotta adjust it depending on where you are and the culture that place has. Most of the game was developed in the US (well Canada too) so European game is more difficult if you learned it the US way. At least thats what I used to think.
Then I realized that yes, the game is different but the core is the same. Its just the color of the car that changes, not the engine.
Nowadays I can see that I still have difficulties gaming (especially when the language isnt english) abroad compared to my own turf. But I can still game, no need to revert to AFC crap. Going AFC means that you drop all game. Including game strategy, social skills, no confidence, no inner game, no bodylanguage knowledge, no voice and tonality awareness, no social calibration, no cocky-funny behaviour, no knowledge about anything close to game.

Obviously that cant be done. You have learned it and you cannot just unlearn that much stuff. These are PUA skills we use all the time without even being aware of it. They are passive skills that we have learned from experience. Instead of going back to AFC, we go ahead to improvised game, freestyling.

In the end, what PUA training really does is changing your old concept of what "feels right to do" into a new concept of what "feels right to do". Thats all it is, your reflexes change, you gut changes. Trust your gut, but your new gut.

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I'm not trying to be a dick Ezo, but you're being a Pick Up Snob in my opinion.

bbardot: you just reminded me about porn