has anyone else found that learning the game has been diminuitive towards their results with women and that they were better off before knowing the pros and cons. i know that this must be strange to all of you that have found the light but this really has been the case with me.

rather than approaching in circumstances that i would have done i find myself opting out because i know the right way and cannot utilise it because it is far fetched or unreasonable. after using canned goods i came to the conclusion that i was going nowhere and opted as far away from mystery method as possible.

i am now studying juggler method because it is freestyle and along the lines of how i used to operate. if anyone has any pointers on this and would like to help me out your feedback would be very much appreciated. once in conversation i am doing very well. i just need to learn to open naturally and i could do with some help on this.

i hear wayne elise opens with 'hey whats your name' and 'you look interesting - may i join you'. does anyone know of anything along the same lines that i could use to integrate into my overall sarging?

cheers gonzocharlie. recovering afc turned gamer turned freestyler

I'm horrible at opening with jokes...

usually all i do is give them an energeting Hi! <smile> my name's.... what's yours? i've found taht 99% of the they atleast respond with their name. This is good because if they dont look too amused...slide in the JOKE or a neg about her clothing, then immediate say that's ok you're pulling it off don't look so worried.

I tend to take the more freestyle approach and improv from there..

cool, thanks for that - its helpful to know!

im going to start opening with ANYTHING - whatevers on my mind at the time. i will post something on this later and let everyone know how i get on with situational openers

While I still open with opinion openers I usually freestyle it from something that has happened during the evening.

For example last Saturday I was arguing with my mate's girlfriend that Darth Vader was cooler than Han Solo. This basically became my opener for the rest of the evening...

tan...

After looking into materials from a ton of the primary PUG's,
like Mystery, David D., Juggler, Tyler (RSD), etc.
I've come to this very important conclusion:

There is no set standard way to open.
Anything will work if it's done right.

The other night, I was walking on campus to one of my exams.
It's freezing cold where I'm at, just for the record.
Anyways, I get to a crosswalk, waiting for the walk sign,
and there's a girl waiting there.
I thought I'd try something:

Me: The Bahamas.
Her: What?
Me: If I could pick anywhere in the world to be right now... it'd be the Bahamas.
Her: Ohhhhh *laughs*
Me: Your turn, pick somewhere.

...and so on.
She couldn't pick a place, I made fun of her for having no imagination,
then we talked about our best vacations, blah blah.

All I did was ramble off a random thought.
Yet it worked.

Just something to mention...
I've noticed that you really can say anything during day-game, and it'll work.
As long as you can follow through accordingly.
Night-game (bars, clubs, large parties), on the other hand, is tricky sometimes.

With night-game, I don't neccessarily used canned opinion openers, etc.
What I'll do is think outside of the box:
If I were a part of their group, and I saw some random guy come up,
what would I be thinking in my head?

1) "Who's this guy?"
2) "What does this guy want?"
3) "How long do we have to deal with him?"

I call it a defensive auto-pilot.
People get really personal with their friends,
as if their good time is for them only,
and they don't want a stranger to come in and fuck it up.
So your opener just has to answer these questions in a harmless manor.

That's exactly why the opinion opener works...
1) You're just a random guy, NOT trying to intrude,
2) All you want is a simple opinion on something (no deeper inner-motives), and
3) It's just a quick question, only have a minute, etc (Style's time constraint).

But you don't have to use an opinion opener.
Anything spontaneous, interesting, and harmless,
that shows no further intentions, or further investments of time, will do.

And even that isn't a rule, lol.

Just my thoughts.

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You can learn and learn and learn all you want... but until you go out and use it, it doesn't mean a thing.

hey slack. i don't presume to say one method is better than another, but some work better for some. sounds like you're more of an improv kind of person. i am to, and i think that it makes life easier for the game. but not everyone can just improv in conversations. canned routines come in real handy for these individuals, and over time they kind of learn enough routines that they start to make thier own anyway, graduating into the wonderful world of improv. i know my wing-in-training is terrible at improv. downright sux at it. but he does great with some of the canned routines. they're like training wheels. but once they're off you can make quicker and deeper connections with women by using relevant material to the situation. some people just take longer to get those training wheels off.

as for openeing a-la-juggler style, it really depends on the environment and what's going on there. i try do open with something utterly incongrous to the surroundings. this part of the country at least loves looau tiki party themes. so i'll open with something like "damn it's cold in here! maybe i can patch a bunch of these umbrellas into a blanket. (indicating those little paper drink umbrellas.) what color do you want?"

it really depends on what's in the environment. i guess what i use the most is just that: the opposite of what's really there. but my style is to unbalance girls with the unexpected when i open. making them think gets thier interest. once thier interested you can talk about whatever, and you said once in there you're all set. let me know if this helped at all

Element...

If I could I would send 300 virgins to yer house...

Very well put brother...

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This game is Custom made for me!

thanks guys i havent got much time right now to post but what ill do is make sure i reply a post here soon detailing how i got on with your hints and advice.

yes thanks requiem your help is very much appreciated. your post like elements was very detailed and helped shift my perspective.

i will get back to you all a.s.a.p


p.s if anyone ever wants to talk game - and this by the way is all i ever do - feel free to add me on msn.

cheers!!

I think we can all agree that mystery is indeed a good PUA, But go and read the juggler method. I read it 2 years ago, I had zero game, no gf ever, nothing. I read it, tried it once on just one girl, and I got that girl. We broke up now. But comparing the two PUA's. A lot of mystery's work is area specific and he doesn't demonstrate negs very good. Also, for guys looking for relationships, he simply ignores them. It is as if he is very rigid. look at season two. all his students use the same opening over and over. Juggler taught me use something different everytime. I have opened with Hi how are you, to the force is strong with me today. BAM!!! I gotta go with juggler. Besides, to many girls have seen Mystery.

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Kaptein, Span die seile