I ran into a problem with my game. Usually, I prefer to split date costs with girls until we have some form of relationship. The rationale is if you get a girl to invest her time and money in you then she should want some form of pay off eventually; this has worked for me. The other rationale is I don't want to seem too interested and I don't want the girl feeling obligated to give me something. This feeling of obligation pushes people away.

Well, I go to dinner. Eat dinner. Its time to pay and the girl says I have never been asked to pay before. I analyze the situation on the spot and I tell her I'll pay because I'm thinking if this rubs her the wrong way its going to completely turn her off. "I've never been asked to pay before." The way she said it completely embarasses me and ofcourse while I am embarassed she asks an onslaught of questions "what are you looking for?" "What does this mean to you" etc...all that meaningful shit. I got nothgin. I'm deer in headlights and I feel like im crashing and burning on the landing after a great flight, smh.

I don't whats going to happen with this girl. What will be wiil be. What would you guys suggest to handle this situation goingforward. Would you always pay? Would stand firm and make the girl pay? Would you talk about it before hand?

It depends on the tone of how she said it and the calibre of woman you were with (was she a daddy's girl?), she could have been testing your frame, but I suspect the latter.

The only time I ever paid the full bill myself was back in my total AFC days.
The only exception to this is would be if I bought us dinner, she would have bought something else on that same date (mutual arrangement of course).

I'd have called her out on it, but not being a total ass about it.
Something like a light hearted joke "Did you bring your marigolds with you?"

But to be truthful to you mate, if it pissed her off just asking a simple thing like split the bill with you without a compromise, be prepared to have your wallet bled dry. (It's true - There's no such thing as a free lunch)

Personally, I'd give her the boot - you owe her nothing and I can't stand gold diggers.

If I take the girl out I pay, If she takes me out she pays.

Usually I end up paying which is not afc considering I say to the girl "I am taking you out saturday, dress up il be there at 8" You can't expect the women to pay if you are taking her out lol

On the other hand if it is mutual than don't pay...why should you? If a girl likes me and says we should hang out some time I would say something like "alright, were are you taking me?" which implies that she is paying.

This is a valid point, it’s a good thing to show you’re taking the lead over the situation, but I must admit, this isn't my usual style as I feel it telegraphs too much interest (she is the prize - but that's just my personal point of view).

I mean a cup of coffee or a smoothie is no big deal, but I'm talking about a sit-down meal, which is more of an intimate encounter, (I've also come across women who are very conscious about eating when on a date), so at least to me a meal would mean she was to some extent, invested in you.

Personally, I think you need toy analyze how your date is going and based paying or not on the situation.

I work my personality towards it. I have money so I am really generous towards my friends.

If my date is in to me, I will just pay, because obviously I like her and she likes me. Paying for her in this situation is gonna help it. Not paying is gonna hurt the situation.

If she is not into me, I am gonna split the bill. Is not like I am gonna see her again, so why should be be generous towards her?

you like to split the bill, nothing wrong with that, some girls think it's cheap, but those girls are gold digging if they care that much and just want a free dinner, you want to hook up with someone that cares enough about that to put you on the spot for treating her as your equal?

you lost your frame completely here and caved, you show her you are this, then when challenged, you are now that, instead of staying true to who you are, you cave without even challenging her rationale

why does she expect a guy to pay? does she not have money on her?, does she expect her man to pay for her life? is that something I want in a girl? is she just after money? do I have to pay because she didn't bring money? is she expecting me to buy sex or something?

^ this is you staying true to your frame still being sure of yourself and what YOU WANT, this is you leading rather then following her lead, acting on what you want, rather then reacting to what she wants


I'll pay because I'm thinking this rubs her the wrong, I don't want to turn her off, I am embarassed cause this has never happened to her before, I want her to like me, I did something wrong because she thinks so, she may be irritated I fucked up, how do I fix this?

^ this is you staying true to her frame, not being sure of yourself and what YOU WANT, but trying to adapt to what SHE WANTS for approval, this is you following, rather then leading her, reacting to her, rather then acting according to you
stronger frame control, practise holding your focus, meditation might help you, remain certain of who you are and what you value and uphold those values do not bend to the will of others and compromise your values, remain certain that everything will be ok, stay confident in yourself and what you want

you be the one setting the pace for approval, you be the one assessing her, assume she already likes you no matter what, and if she doesn't then she is wasting your time, don't allow the frame to shift to be the other way around, if she's not happy, who cares, she can go flick the bean and you can see a different girl who actually is worth the effort, stay sure of yourself, there is no reason you are not good enough for that girl, if she just wants something from you then she has to be worth it, she's not providing any more value then you by doing nothing but being in your company, should be a win/win for the both of you, you give and she gives, not you give and she takes, that's not the way it works, you are equals, you are not her SPAM, you are not her gay friend, you are not her do stuff for me guy, you are not her personal chaufeur, you are not her therapist/problem solver, don't accept shit into your life that you don't want, don't passively just let people dictate the frame, you aren't taking anything from her by having sex, if she thinks so then she's obviously just trying to use her pussy as a pass to free shit, don't play that game, you get pussy, she gets dick, it's win/win, she can front all she wants, but she wants to get laid at the end of that date just as bad as you, or she wouldn't be there in the first place

also, some more food for thought,
why are you taking girls out for dinner?, just hook them up with a fun time that doesn't cost money, or take them out for something more casual like a drink, if you care about paying, it costs less money and it's more likely to lead to sex that night/day, if you have a girl investing hard enough you can even just invite her straight to your house for a movie date and cook her some dinner with the right logistics already handled for you

You just nailed the key factor. Unless you've gone somewhere extremely expensive don't worry about the bill. I usually go on first dates for drinks and it never costs too much. If I like her and want to continue I always pay (unless she insists on splitting) as it will make the process smooth and quick. If I don't want to see her again there's no chance in hell I'm paying. If she kicks up a fuss I'll just tell her the date didn't go well and it's best we go our separate ways including the bill. If you and the girl click it's not worth losing your energy & her emotions/feelings by having a logical discussion about payments for something that is unlikely to be too expensive. Just use common sense.

There is no fixed formula for this. Some girls are just very traditional about dating. I usually judge the situation based on how well we hit it off and either I split the check, pay and tell her to pay the next round or simply just pay if I like her enough. There are 2 tricks I often use for this:

1. When the check comes out, I pretend like I was too into the conversation and keep talking. Observe the way she acts and act upon it. If she shows intention of grabbing the check, I'll pay for it because she at least has the decency to do so or offer. If she doesn't, I'll just split the check.
2. If the date is going well and I like her enough and I know I'm gonna pay, I'll make a random bet with the meal at stakes and let her win on purpose.

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My rules are easy:

If I invite then I pay. If she offers I decline and say no thanks but it was my invitation.

If I like her and we do it again then maybe she can buy a drink or something minor.

BTW I really do not believe in taking women on expensive dates at all and investing financially in them.

Just small fun things etc.