I just rewatched series 1 episode 1 of Keys to the VIP

The two guys on the show broke just about every supposed 'rule' of pick up but were still successful. Why ? because they were really good looking. If a girls into you, they are into you and you can get away with saying and doing just about anything

I liken this to top elite athletes who in their chosen sport can get away with breaking fundamentals of that sport because of their incredible talent level.

I have always thought "the science of pickup" is most benefical for guys who are neutral looking. Guys who are not ugly, girls are not repulsed by them, but they don't instantly make girls wet purely from their looks. The science of PUA turns a neutral opinion into a positive opinion.

If your talking about looks ratings out of 10

I would say 9s and 10s out of 10 do not need PUA
7s and 8s with PUA can become killers, full fucking calendar
5s and 6s with PUA will keep their dick happy enough most of the time
3s and 4s with PUA will get some action but will still need plenty of hand time
1s and 2s even with PUA still aint getting any

thoughts ?

Hey bud, game comes in many forms.. The fundamentals of being a good pick up artist don't mean you need to know routines and openers and all that crap.. To me, most important things you need are humour and confidence.. Obviously looks have some effect at the start.. Sometimes you see really good looking guys that girls are interested in.. Few minutes later after they start vomiting shit from their mouth they are done..

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In this world, you don't get what you deserve but what you fight for!

Disagree completely to be honest. Good looks might give you an extra chance or two, but if you've got no game it doesn't matter how good looking you are.

Firstly, using the 'out of 10 rating scale' for this sort of thing is fairly bogus anyway. Different girls will rate lads at different levels. What if one girl thinks you're a 9 and the other thinks you're a 7 or 8? You're going to be able to walk up to both of those girls, say absolutely nothing and sleep with one whilst the other isn't really that fussed? Doesn't always work like that!

Also, the way I understand pick up, there aren't any rules to break. The key to it all is confidence, but other than that, there are no rules. That's possibly why it seems like good looking guys don't need the 'rules' - they don't need to use specific pick up routines or lines or anything else, because they're extremely confident because of their good looks.

However, in saying that, I think if the girl finds you ridiculously attractive then she'll give you more chances if you mess up. But if you continuously show her that you're basically just a complete prat, she's not going to be going home with you.

Basics of PUA remain the same for every guy, good looking or not

- Be confident
- Be funny
- Be cocky
- Be natural

PUA isn't the magic pill to turn you into superman overnight. It's a life choice and process to improve yourself and gain confidence. Once you're in control of your life and your own frame, girls will be attracted to you naturally.

People should understand that PUA doesn't change you into someone else amazing, it's rather just power up your inner game to make you more appeal and be able to stand on the top among other uninformed AFCs.

I do need to make one point though. 9s and 10s don't need PUA? That's bullshit. Of course, you will get laid but you will never be able to keep the girls if your inner game is terrible. You're probably the primary target for them to use and cheat on.

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[O.o] .: Survival Guide For Online Dating
/)__) .:Tips To Significantly Improve Your Online Game
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Just because your not a 10 physically as a guy in no way means you can't break the rules. All you need to be is confident really. Looks have nothing to do with breaking the rules. Also just because your a 10 doesn't mean you don't need game either. Ya your physically hot so what, that doesn't mean your personality is a 10.

im confused, are we calculators?..

The point system is - now be prepared - wack, lame, nerdy, lame, unuseful, and did i mention lame.?

Bro.. Broo. Come onnn! have you ever seen a fat or ugly guy get with a hot chick and wonder how thhe fuckk did he get with her? he wanted her and knew that he could, that doesnt mean he knew exactly how right in the moment, but he was CONFIDENT enough that he would LEARN and figure it out...

PUA in a nutshell - no nutcracker needed

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Work hard, Play harder, Fuck more than both

guys can post what ever they want about looks to help justify how they feel about their own situations,

looks absolutely do matter, and what you posted is not so cut and dry, girls are less visual then men when it comes to selecting partners, in the way we see a hot girl and it makes us horny, not so much the same thing for a girl, it's more like... ohh hot guy, I want him to validate my ego, If I have this hot guy as a partner, I am more worthy then these other girls... more of an ego boost then anything, the anticipation towards sex and the tension around that, that is what will really raise a girls buying temp, maybe the guy is sooo hot that she starts thinking about what sex would be like with him, in this case, this can be a huge turnon, but really it is fairly different for girls then it is for guys

looks matter totally, and if you are a 9 or a 10, I agree, you don't need game at all, but not having game won't give you the options you want, you just occasionally have girls that choose you (the better looking the more frequent), people can doubt this, but I have seen it live in action many a weekend as my wing is 6'1, about 180 lbs, has been scouted for modeling before, lost his virginity when he was 13, had multiple girls ask him out every year and turned plenty down all the way from grade 8-12, has slept with 40+ girls (thats what he guesses anyways), and is 23 years old, he is fine with talking with girls, but he can't open, and he can't show intent or escalate unless the girl makes it absolutely clear she is interested in him, the best example I have seen of a freebie with him was one time we were at a party sitting on a couch, some girl we didn't know just walked up and sat on his lap, and her opener was, so.... you want to have sex?, he just said ok and 5 minutes later they were upstairs fucking, on top of that he usually gets approached multiple times at the club, he still gets rejected just like any other guy (but this looks more like a girl approaches him interested, and when he has nothing to say she just gets bored and leaves), but he gets way more chances and girls are much more receptive to his approaches until they realize he is a pussy, and for alot of girls they simply don't care and start hitting on him anyways

so really, don't buy into the looks are all that matter, and don't buy into the looks don't matter at all, it is not so black and white, girls go for your status in relation to other men as a whole, not just the looks, that is more of a guy thing, but looks in them selves are a form of status in relation to other men, and if a girl values looks, then having them makes you higher status then other males (ego boost for her to get you)

also, good looking guys face different problems, girls alot of the time get insecure and just assume that since a guy is good looking that they are not good enough for him, this causes reaction seeking behavior and neediness, when they get a whiff of disinterest they will just get resentful and say shit like, ''I hate that guy, I would never date someone prettier then me'' , or ''That guy is so into himself, I would never get with someone like that'' it's just insecurity and complete bullshit, you can bet if that guy just tossed some ioi's her way, she would flip like a pancake in a matter of seconds, also it can spike asd, they just assume since you are so attractive you could get any girl you want, so if you want them, it must mean you just want to fuck them and chuck them, because how could they possibly be worthy right?

so it is tricky, just sort of have to not play up the IM SO AMAZING AND COCKY attitude, because girls will just feel insecure around that and feel they are not good enough, then they try to act like they are rejecting you to protect their own egos, when in reality they felt rejected so they got spiteful, the equivalent of a guy walking away from a 10 after not putting in a real effort and saying, ''she was a stuck up bitch anyways glad it didn't work out'' when the guy actually wanted her and is just butthurt because he didn't give it a real shot

also, beyond all these looks threads, it's important to realize that the one attribute as a guy that will get you laid more then any other, is confidence, not looks, confidence is absolute #1

Looks matter for the first impression, it might give you the attention, but it is not more than that.

There's a lot to do with age/experience of the girl here too. I've seen it lots of times where girls who've gone for that cute guy just because he's a cute guy, seem to get tired of that same empty fling, and look for guys who're more than just physically attractive (pua's).

Alternatively,

Girls, especially young ones, will prioritize looks. But that can be circumvented pretty consistently with this cool stuff called Pick Up hahah. maybe you've heard of it too

Thanks for the replies everyone. I didn't mean to make it sound so cut and dry and scientifc, the numbers guide was just a rough thing i threw together on the spot.

Pumpington is dead on - again....

There's no need to overthink shit.

People need to calibrate their own needs.

Some will think they don't need game. Cool - don't use it. Your success rate will be exponentially lower - but that's on you.

To any and all reading - if you've seen the concepts of PU, if you've applied any of them with any amount of success - ever... You're fucked. You have no choice but to learn this "PU stuff" as best you can. Youv'e already seen behind the curtain. You already know it's out there and it works... and if you walk from it - you'll always wonder and doubt. I'm not wired that way - I saw the results and demanded that from myself - so I took the time, years, failures and LEARNED how to simply make myself more attractive to the opposite sex to the point I've minimized rejection.

Anyone accepting anything less from themselves - thank you. Your own failure to advance yourself will directly correlate to the increase in pussy a PUA experiences.

As pumpington says... a great looking guy will get women - even a blind squirrel finds a nut. But - I'd take bets that a fat dude with game over a good looking guy who is a rock gets more women more often (HB7's and higher only).


RR

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Women are like ceramic tile.... if you do the prep work, and lay them properly the first time...you can walk all over them for years to come.

I'm pretty sure the better looking you are the easier ou can get away with being direct, seeing as there is a higher probability for initial attraction.

Everyone gets a girl throughout their life, or almost everyone. But PU leaves nothing up to chance, that is one of the biggest differences. People who study this begin to know what to look for and grab chances, instead of leaving it open to getting lucky once in a while.

Keep in mind, that good looking people already have some of the traits needed to attract because they come by default.

If you are good looking, and women have been telling you you are good looking your whole life, you are going to have confidence just because of that, you are going to be able to talk to women freely, because they have been around you forever, and you have alot of practice gaming without even realizing. And wont be needy. And will have social proof already.

PUA is mostly, and I say mostly, for average looking guys. Not for great looking and not for but ugly either.

If you are average looking, it can help you alot. You just need to break out of your shell and start communicating with the opposite sex the way they need to be.

It's not easy, it's a struggle, and wont work all the time. but the reward is, when it does work, it beats beating it.

I'm a pretty goodlooking guy, I'm not Johnny Depp, but the first thing girls notice and compliment me on are my looks.

I used to have absolutely no game, never kissed a girl until I was 20 years old (lost my virginity same year) and I am only 22, almost 23 now. The first time I so much as held a girls hand was when I was about 18 years old. One of my best friends is overweight and had three girlfriends by the time we were both 18.

So yeah, I don't think they matter all that much. I would say they enable me to trigger more IOIs from women and make approaches easier for me and I can usually get away with a lot more raunchier flirting. That's about it really.