Women respond to different things at different times with different people, for millions of different reasons. Get over it and keep moving forward.

PHAGAN AS I TOLD YOU MANY MANY MANY TIMES, FORGET ALL OF THESE GURUS, DANCE FLOOR GAME IS TOTALLY DIFFERENT I WILL DESTROY ALL OF THESE GURUS IN DANCE GAME SO CAN YOU TRUST ME, I WILL RESPOND IN CAPS NEXT TO YOUR SENTENCES, SINCE YOU ARE CONFUSED A BIT, WITH THAT BEING SAID YOU ARE DOING EXELLENT:


Hey guys,

I need your help with something, this is a serious topic. This is the 2nd time I'm bringing this up.

In the last two nights I've been in the best mood (state) ever. Me and my wing were lording the club, opening sets left and right, dancing with tons of chicks.DHV DHV On both nights I wasn't able to pull but nevertheless these were good nights as far as I'm concerned... I'm seeing three girls regularly, I have as much sex as I want. I go out purely to have fun and improve my skill, get numbers for a rainy day, etc. I'd be happy to pull home a quick one or add another girl to my list of girlfriends but the point is that I am NOT needy in anyway, I don't need sex, I don't come with an agenda - I'm just there to give value and have fun. EXELLENT!

Now here comes the problem:

Yesterday I was trying a new opener I came up with - coming up to girls in a "fake shy" why, slowly, looking to the sides, tapping on their shoulder in a really awkward way and saying all "shy" - "hey! I'm X whats your name??". This opened every single set, there wasn't any girl who wouldn't smile, tell me her name, and start a convo with me. This works because it shows that I'm socially intelligent, that I know "the deal", that I'm confident enough to make a joke out of the scene and myself, that I'm funny, and it shows some vulnerability... a soft side. YES BUT YOU WERE ALSO BEING CONFIDENT DHV, EVEN THOUGH I DO NOT AGREE WITH YOUR STYLE BUT IT DID SHOW CONFIDENCE

Today I was trying something different. I was watching earlier Tims Flawless Natural (RSD) and decided to open with "full 100% intent" as he calls it.

I basically just came up to girls with a loud "HEY! I'M X WHAT'S YOUR NAME?" - full frontal - sometimes putting my hand out for a shake. I even opened a few times with just pointing at a girl then gesturing her with my finger to "come over here". HORRIBLE, THERE IS NOTHING THAT MAKES YOU DIFFERENT IN THIS APPROACH THAN ANYBODY ELSE

I simply couldn't be more confident. My wing did the same. We got tons of AI, a nice make out, a few dances and twirls, but the bottom line is that this was FAR from being effective as it should have been. The "fake shy" opener from the night before worked better. THE SHY OPENER EVEN THOUGH IS NOT WHAT I RECOMMEND WAS ORIGINAL, KEY WORD ORIGINAL, THE SECOND APPROACH WHAT EVERY OTHER LOSER DOES.

I've been reading "the way of the superior man" recently and according to the book and to ALL OTHER PUA THEORY - what women respect most is POWER - certainty. Intent. Confidence. They want a man who KNOWS what he wants and GOES for it. You all know what I'm talking about. YES AND CORRECT, ALSO LEADERSHIP

The problem is that night after night I see evidence to the contrary.

A case in point from tonight - a 3 set. HB7s. I start dancing with one of the chicks, getting closer, closer... making out. Great. We dance for maybe 3-4 minutes, making out a few more times, I make sure to always be the one who breaks it off. She puts her hand under my shirt, she looks at me all seductive... it's on. Then she takes a step back and tells me "dance!", looking at the floor in front of me as if giving me instructions to "dance for her"... so I come closer to her and say "I don't take orders from anyone" and back off a little, still inside her air space, smiling, not angry or anything... just being my cool self, the same self she was making out with 20 seconds earlier. THIS WAS HORRIBLE DECISION, THIS WAS NOT A SHIT TEST, IN DANCE FLOOR GAME I GET AS TO DANCE ALL THE TIME AND I DO, BUT THIS WEEKEND SOME GIRL ASK ME HOW MANY PUSH UP CAN I MAKE(SHIT TEST) I SAID 0, SHE LEFT IN DISCUSS LOL, THAT RESPONSE AND ACTION WAS HORRIBLE, YOU NEED TO LEARN CALIBRATION, DANCE FLOOR GAME IS DIFFERENT

Now - according to the theory - my refusal to dance for her should have been highly attractive. NO YOU FUCKED UP, DANCE FLOOR GAME IS DIFFERENT..I did not jump thru her hoop, THERE WAS NO HOOP TO JUMP I stood my ground, I showed her that I'm a man and that I don't take shit from no one.... NO YOU SHOW HER THAT YOU CAN NOT CALIBRATE AND YOUR CAME ACROSS AS A JERK,We WERE dancing anyway, so ordering me to in front of her was purely a power game.

So what happened? OF COURSE POWER GAME, BAD CALIBRATION DO NOT LISTEN TO THIS PEOPLE, THEY NO NOTHING ABOUT DANCE FLOOR GAME, THERE IS NO POWER GAME, JUST DANCE HAVE FUN, MAKE HER HAVE FUN AND TURN HER ON WHILE DANCING

SHE LEFT!

She just turned around and fucking LEFT. YES BECAUSE OF YOUR SO CALL "POWER GAME"

Now who knows, maybe it was because her friend was dancing alone, maybe she decided that we made out too much too quickly... whatever. But I have a very strong feeling that she left because I REFUSED to do what she told me to do. According to the "theory" she should have been TURNED ON by my refusal. DO NOT LISTEN TO THIS PUAS THEY DO NOT KNOW SHIT ABOUT DANCE GAME, THEY EVEN ADMIT IT...

WTF???

Every night, again and again, I see how complete CHODES with no game and no confidence are able to pick up women while my supposedly superior inner game and 100% full intent FAIL. These guys who come to the girls all shy, back off, get closer again, come from behind, back off again, smile to their chode friends, then finally go in - have ZERO game and know NOTHING about pick up - GET GIRLS ALL THE TIME. They display MASSIVE WEAKNESS, shit that I wouldn't dream of doing, and get girls with perhaps more consistency than I do. WORRY ABOUT YOU AND YOUR GAME, DO NOT WORRY ABOUT THEM...

Now, I know what some of you guys are going to say... that perhaps my confidence comes off as arrogance and that girls hate that. But believe me - I KNOW what I'm doing. I'm in complete control and I opened maybe 20 sets tonight, playing with different variations of the same "100% full intent" opener. NO YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING IN DANCE GAME, YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING IN REGULAR GAME, DANCE GAME TOTALLY DIFFERENT..

IT SUCKED.

What I see is that girls are TURNED OFF by guys who are FULLY confident. NO TRUE AT ALL THE OPPOSITE They want to see that you have at least SOME weakness built into you. NO TRUE AT ALL THEY WILL SHIT TEST YOU, BUT THIS WAS NOT THE CASE HERE IN DANCE GAME THEY SHIT TEST YOU BY DANCING WITH ANOTHER GUY They DON'T want a "real man". They want a 90% man, someone who would be a man but only to a certain point. This completely contradicts every PUA and sexual theory that I've read, it just doesn't make ANY sense, but that's what I see AGAIN AND AGAIN every single night. AGAIN DANCE GAME TOTALLY DIFFERENT FROM REGULAR GAME, I THINK I AM GOING TO WRITE A BOOK OR SOMETHING...

Does anybody know what I'm talking about? YES Did anybody else observe this? NO

This simply disgusts me. If this is true it basically means that all (or most) women want nothing but to control us and that the idea of a "strong man" is a myth designed to lead us to THINK that we are in control while in reality we aren't. NO TRUE, YOUR CALIBRATION WAS WRONG.

Now there are some cases in which a woman really wants to be controlled, especially during sex. But I feel that in general, their real agenda is making us THINK that we are in control while they actually use and manipulate us. Chicks say this to each other all the time - "I let him THINK that he does what he wants but the truth is that dot dot dot hahahah"..... TRUE!


Basically half of the advice in "the way of the superior man" revolves around the fact that women are NUTS and that we should just learn to LOVE THEM FOR IT. If you read the book, you know what I'm talking about.

FUCK THAT. NO OPINION HAVE NOT READ THE BOOK

If women are nuts then I only want them as sexual partners. This is terrible "news" for me because I'm really trying to see women in a different light (after my LUNATIC ex of 9 years.....) but it's just doesn't seem to work, I keep seeing evidence that they are nothing but manipulative bitches who are looking for WEAK men who they can control.

Any thoughts on this???? WOMEN ARE NOT NUTS, YOU NEED TO LEARN HOW TO DEAL WITH THEM...CHANGE YOUR FRAME..

_________________
Learn the proper way to maximize your results in a dancefloor/club environment, check out my blog and youtube channel:
http://www.dancefloorseduction.com

Dancefloor/Club game youtube channel:
http://www.youtube.com/dancefloorseduction

+1

_________________
Learn the proper way to maximize your results in a dancefloor/club environment, check out my blog and youtube channel:
http://www.dancefloorseduction.com

Dancefloor/Club game youtube channel:
http://www.youtube.com/dancefloorseduction

something doesn't jive about this story.

it's like

too much confidence, not enough value...maybe?

idk

_________________
what dr. house brings to medicine, i bring to everyday life (an extreme dose of cynicism), don't listen to the curmudgeon!

I don't think dancing with her woulda been jumping through a hoop. She wanted to dance, you said no, so she left TO GO DANCE. you thought about it waaaay too much and turned a simple gesture into a power struggle/value issue.

magnum45 is dead! Long live skills360!

_________________
" You're born alone and you die alone and this world just drops a bunch of rules on top of you to make you forget those facts. But I never forget. I'm living like there's no tomorrow, because there isn't one. "

I love jealousy...Keep worrying about me, i don't worry about you... As i said i got more game in my pinkie than you will have your whole life...Now go back to jerking off...Too all of you that do not know how draper started attacking me, when he agreed with some jerk off too change locks, kick a girl out, and cut all ties of girl that was living with a guy for about 7 years. I though the advise was the dumbest thing i ever heard, since then Draper has been trying to pick on me: this are his 2 amog techniques: magnum45(i do not even know what it means)... And sarcastically praising me WEAK.

_________________
Learn the proper way to maximize your results in a dancefloor/club environment, check out my blog and youtube channel:
http://www.dancefloorseduction.com

Dancefloor/Club game youtube channel:
http://www.youtube.com/dancefloorseduction

This forum and our short attention span makes it nearly impossible to discuss such complex issues in serious and deep way but I'll try to answer you guys. I made a mistake by making this post too wide.
I'm not saying that you should not show vulnerability or that you should be "Mr. Perfect" - I was just opening them, there was no time to show vulnerability. I'm saying I've been rejected (within 20-30 seconds) on grounds of being "too confident" as in "a too strong man, someone I won't be able to fuck with, it's better if I stay clear from this one"

Do you understand the difference?

Again, same thing. I was NOT an arrogant bastard. I was a guy who is NOT AFRAID coming up to a chick and putting himself out there. There was NO arrogance. How can "HI, MY NAME IS X, WHAT'S YOUR NAME" equals arrogance?? WTF?? (the pointing at them and telling them "come here" might be arrogance... although that one actually worked quit well)

Man, I always like your posts. But I'm reading this and I don't understand what's the bottom line here. You are more or less rewording what I said. You are saying "some women want to be in control at all times". Isn't that exactly what I'm saying? That if they see that they WON'T be able to control a man, then they PASS on him. Because they are looking for guys that they can MANIPULATE. (hence the title of this thread - do women look for weak men) so what are you saying dude, that I'm right?

And your point II, in other words, is this - girls want to see how they effect us, they want to see how they make us weaker in their presence, it makes them feel powerful. Isn't this also exactly what I'm saying????? That they are all into control and submission ? And hence that all the "women are looking for a confident / strong / leader / alpha male" is just a thin veils covering a much deeper and uglier truth?

I just read something that made me think about this... how women love to see us cum. They love to see how they basically SUCK (literally) life energy from us, they get a power trip from making us losing our desire for life as we ejaculate. (don't tell me you don't know what I'm talking about....)

What is that if not the ultimate power trip? When a woman cums she doesn't get that same "I want to go to sleep now for 1 week" feeling that we get. We love giving women orgasms because we want to give them joy and pleasure. What makes them excited in seeing us cuming is the fact that despite out physical strength they still control us and are able to bring us down to total submission.

I guess what I meant is during MLTRs, when I'm seeing 3-4 girls in the same time... MLTR and even a LTR doesn't equal WIFE (which will usually mean children too)

Your comments about The Way of the Superior Man - you agree with me on some points, not on others... this is a long discussion, I'll start a new thread about this book at some point. But basically this book tells guys how women are "goddesses" that should be "worshiped" and that we men should "ravel and bath" in their "ocean of conflicting emotions" etc. I'm reading all of this and thinking "oh yea, everything he says about women is so accurate this is GOLD!"

Basically I could recognize EVERYTHING he is talking about from my past experiences with women and it just sucks you in. It's a lot of stuff I never read before. Go read the reviews on Amazon, from men AND women, who praise this book as a bible about relationships.


But then I suddenly caught myself saying 'wait a minute..... Why the fuck... THEY are the goddesses? Why do I need to RAVEL or BATH in ANY of their BULLSHIT? Why can't I just enjoy the good parts (as a LOVER) and let someone else eat all their shit as a PROVIDER" ?????

The problem with this book is that it ASSUMES monogamy as our default behavior and then from there goes on to explain how to maintain such a relationship.

But once you come to realize that this is FALSE and monogamy is a constructed idea "invented" just a few thousand years ago - it changes EVERYTHING.

Guys - if you didn't read Sex At Dawn yet - go RUN buy it. It will change how you see women, men, LTRs.... I can't review the whole book here but bottom line is - we are NOT MEANT TO BE IN LONG TERM RELATIONSHIPS. We are NOT designed for it. It's a MYTH designed by the CHURCH to get people to sign up to Christianity - up until then the rich had 3-4 wives and the poor had none - Christianity promised a woman for each man - it was the best marketing campaign ever.

Until 10,000 years ago we lived in groups of 150 people and EVERYONE WERE FUCKING EVERYONE, the whole gang was raising all the children together, there was no jealousy, no long term mating - none of that.

All these "problems" in relationships that the book is trying to teach us how to deal with (women's emotionality, lack of sexual attraction, unhappiness in the long run, etc) are the result of long term monogamous relationships being UNNATURAL for us.

It's not that some "GOD" put us together in these mostly dysfunctioning relationship to TEST US or some spiritual CRAP like that, it's just that we are socialized into these unnatural constructions that create friction - MOSTLY FROM THE FEMALE SIDE - and then we need to learn to become SUPERIOR MAN in order to deal with this unnatural relationship in which we have imprisoned ourselves!

And why is most of the shit in a LTR comes from the WOMANS side??? Because their sexuality is much more suppressed than our sexuality... they are socialized to be "good", that sex is something that "bad" girls want, that masturbation is evil etc... all the while their true nature is possibly MORE sexual than ours.

Women are "designed" to have sex with MANY MEN during a short period of time. That's why they can have multiple orgasms and we cannot. That's why 99% of sperm is "killer sperm" designed to attack sperm of other man while only 1% of sperm can actually inseminate. That's why our penises are designed the way they do (to force out other mens sperm). That's why women are so LOUD when they orgasm (they are signalling other males that they are "ready to be fucked") while we can cum just once and then we want to LEAVE THE SCENE (and make place for other males). That's why the most popular porn category is GANG BANGS (we like to watch women fucked by other men! What sense does this make???!!) and why we get excited by seeing other men cum on a womans face or body (again - out of this context this makes NO SENSE).

The reason for this whole sexual behavior is that "nature" wanted to confuse men (and women) as to the identity of the father so all the males in the group would take care of the all the children TOGETHER.

Again - if you are serious about PU, sexuality, relationships etc... you really need to read all this info, it will blow your mind.
Dude - read my post. I said clearly that WE WERE DANCING. While dancing she stopped dancing and decided that I should "dance for her" while she stands and looks at me.

I think what this was is this:

Girl thinking - oh this guy is really confident and cool, he just came over to me and we started making out so quickly, I should now test if I can control him or if he really is the kind of guy who does whatever he wants.

Girl - "Dance!" (girl thinking - I will order him to dance and see what happens)

Me - "Sorry babe, I don't take orders from anyone"

Girl thinking - shit... this is not some guy I will be able to manipulate. I should go back to my friends and find some chode who I can turn into my puppy because that's how I get validated.


OK so what you're saying is that the reason my full intent opener didn't work is that it was a dance floor and the girls were there to have fun and dance and not talked to... interesting. I was blown off after 20-60 seconds, 20 times straight, I don't think that this is the case. Also - I WAS dancing. I WAS WAS WAS dancing. I'm not sure in how many ways I can put it. I WAS DANCING AND HAVING FUN AND TALKING WITH OTHER GUYS, AND GIVING VALUE. We were getting TONS of AI and good vibes but as soon as I approached FULLY CONFIDENT the girls backed off. It was also a very specific kind of rejection... it wasn't the "I have a boyfriend / I need to go to the toilet / You are not good enough for me" rejection. It was a respectful / graceful rejection (in most cases), very different from the rejections I encounter when I'm not fully in state or when I open without that full intent / confidence .


I hope this makes sense... very abstract stuff.

skills360 - I like your posts and I wish I could see you sarge (where are you located?) but I hate going thru hundreds of posts reading your comments about other people's posts, trying to make that into a coherent game plan.

Stop writing that you should write a book about it. Just write ONE LONG NICE POST from start to finish (not simply commenting on what other people are saying!!!!) and put down your method so we can see what it's all about.

OK????

Thanks

Also:

Many of you here are fans of 60YC. If you read his 4th book you know his theory that we are "agenda providers" for women, that the only thing they really care about is their "baby making agenda".

Basically most if not all women would LEAVE a guy they "love" if he will not be willing to start a family with them at some point. They love one guy one day but then will leave him the next day if he is unwilling to commit to marriage and children... then 3 months later the same chick will already be married and "in love" with some other guy, and pregnant. In other words - we are there just to fulfill their maternal agenda. As 60YC says - you are NOT special. They want your sperm and support... that's all.

Now - I don't know how you feel about this... that's not my theory, that's your guru 60YC. I tend to agree with this.

So if this is true then it would be logical to assume that women would be looking for the ability to manipulate / control their man from the VERY first minute. Being with / falling in love with / fucked by - a guy who doesn't take shit from no one and won't be manipulated is a HUGE RISK for them.

Phangan, thanks i do not mind constructive criticism i welcome it, appreciate it, i am writing a book, having a booty call fix my horrible grammar and spelling lol, is coming along well is just too complex to put in writing dance club game... I will post later the mistakes part of the book that people make... Anyways, my point was your first opener was ORIGINAL, that is why it worked better, the other one is what everybody else does, you need to differentiate yourself from the rest, you were doing the same thing in the second opener that every other guy does, so girls have bitch shields on steroids, they do not know if you got game or not, they judge you by your actions in 5-10 seconds, is really really fast... Re-read the post i am right on the money, I told you not to listen to Gurus about the "power game" when it comes to dance game, is not that much transferable, in my opinion regular game and dance game is way way different, is more like kind of 60 or gunwitch but not really, is weird... You fucked up with the girl by no dancing, that was not a hoop or shit test, you are doing good... Dance floor game is way more difficult than regular game, again because of the bitch shield on steroids...

_________________
Learn the proper way to maximize your results in a dancefloor/club environment, check out my blog and youtube channel:
http://www.dancefloorseduction.com

Dancefloor/Club game youtube channel:
http://www.youtube.com/dancefloorseduction

You may have been trying to "fake shy" but by approaching a complete stranger and introducing yourself, that is still a pretty ballsy move by comparison to a lot of people.

Shy is not necessarily a turnoff to people. Sometimes people even find it endearing. Approaching a gal and making a somewhat awkward approach can even be powerfull because it is showing her that you are interested in her enough that you are willing to approach her and engage her EVEN THOUGH you are shy. In many ways that shows more balls and courage than somone who is naturally outgoing making an approach.

If you come on super confident and comfortable and approach, a gal will likely assume that you are pretty much approaching anyone and everyone in the same manner (in other words she will just assume you are a playa and that is what you do on Sat nights)

On the other hand, if you appear that you are somewhat shy and awkward but you approach her anyway it will appear that you have taken a specific interest in HER enough to approach. It is much more flattering to a person to think that someone has taken a specific interest in them as an individual as opposed to someone who simply approaches everyone with a set of tits.

You may have thought that you looked like a pussy but the fact that you approached AT ALL still showed you had some giblets......and it showed you were still human and not just some playa hitting on every chick that came along.

I don't see any great mystery here.

OK, very good post and it sounds solid. But the thing is that both you and Skills360 assume that many people approach with 100% confidence and that me doing the same turned me into a player. But if you look at the scene you'll see that most approaches are awkward / lame and not ballsy... a man that approaches with full confidence is rare, in my opinion.

IMHO you have really misunderstood some things. It's true that women lose respect for guys that are manipulated and pushed around by people. BUT that doesn't mean that when someone completely stiffarms them and makes them feel like ass that they are going to get turned on by that. You really missed the mark.

If she had said she wanted you to suck her tits would you have blown her out? Well guess what, in many ways dancing is every bit as much foreplay as tit-sucking. She was inviting you to indulge her in something that stimulates and arouses her and you stiffarmed her and acted like a dickhead.

It's not even that you don't like to dance, you did it for no other reason than to stiffarm her and blow her out...and you did it for your own ego.

Basically you were a prick.

Women have their own complience tests and such too. You were on the dance floor dancing, she asked you to dance for her and show her what you got. It was an invitation to display your mating dance. It was because SHE WAS INTERESTED. You flat out rejected her and shot her down and the only reason you did it was to act like some chest-thumping, he-man.

You talk about calibration but you fucked up the calibration on this. This was not pushing you around and it was not manipulating you or shit-testing you. It was an invitation to escalate.

Brother, we were already making out. How does dancing for her while she stands and looks at me as if I am a monkey is escalation from both of us dancing together and making out?

I love your posts btw

We each look for evidence to support our beliefs... communicating on this board is hard, I wish I could meet all of you guys and we could battle this out

I told her "I don't take orders from anyone". I didn't say "fuck you bitch" or something like that. It wasn't arrogant. It was a straight honest alpha male response... It wasn't a rejection. A rejection would be if I would turn my head and leave. Or if I would say "I would dance for you if you weren't fat." I said " I don't take orders from ANYONE" that means not from her, not from my mother, not from another guy. That's not a rejection bro. It was about ME. Not about her.

Ok let's say 90% of the guys out there are chodes. Well 90% of the women are girl-chodes so it's probably an even match.

The one thing that really bothers me about the PUA community is that guys get the feeling that women are 100% squared away and have it all together and are working with 100% efficiency and that it's us guys that have to transform into some kind of superhuman in order to connect with somebody.

That's all bullshit and it's very flawed thinking. Women want a decent guy that can stand up and make things happen and that are decent productive human beings that treat them like human beings. Where is it written that AFCs and chodes can't do that???

The chode that is out there interacting with women and trying to engage is being himself even if he is a chode. He is at least congruent and sincere. Some PUA who is out there trying to act like some kind of "alpha" is play-acting and is trying to take on some kind of character or alternate ego. People can see a fake a mile away.

You may have all the right lines and all the right body language and all the right scripts for how to deal with shit tests and AMOGs and all that but if it is an act it will show.

If some gal is just wanting to score some dick for the night it will work because she knows that you are a playa out looking for some cheap, quick, easy, no-strings poontang and she may take you up on it.

But most women most of the time are just out with friends looking to dance and party and have fun with friends and some playa coming up acting all cool and suave is just going to look like a baffoon.

Women are just people and their interests lay in connecting with other people. They aren't really interested in worshiping a shrine to master PUAs