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PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 4:03 pm 
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The Grand Puba
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Yes, the best way to learn how to talk to women is by talking to women, that's a given just as saying the sun is hot. In the end, telling him that isn't helping him in any way, no one said he had difficulties having encounters with women, just the opposite. He said that while he's a pretty good conversationalist he's having trouble with one-on-one's, that he's unsure if he should always strive to lead the conversation and make it as qualitatively high as possible. How does telling him to go out there and approach more women help him in any way? And again, telling him to do that without any "thinking" of his part, while he is still struggling trying to figure out how to deal with the women he's already built rapport with, but can't seem to advance the relation. Would that kind of advice be helpful?
I think you missed the point, OP did say he was having trouble talking to women. The difficulty is when he's having 1-on-1 conversations with them.

I'm going to do my best to break it down for you. There is a big difference between talking to women while in a group and talking to them 1-on-1. Talking in a group, you can easily lead the group in conversation and because there are multiple people in the conversation, the convo can keep going fluidly and be interesting and entertaining at the same time. On the other hand, in a 1-on-1 conversation with a woman, your goal is much different. The last thing that you want to be is entertaining because it's too difficult to sustain a performance, instead you want to be attractive. Attractive behavior doesn't mean you have to care about her thoughts (as a matter of fact, I would argue that caring about her thoughts too early on would devalue a man a majority of the time). A conversation doesn't necessarily have to be anything of substance as long as you are demonstrating that you are attractive.

Once a woman finds the frame that you've presented to her as attractive, it doesn't matter what you say to her as long as that frame is maintained. This is what you learn by approaching more women. You can say that over and over to a guy, but he won't truly believe it until he has experienced it enough times to realize that it's true. Once that is learned, your behavior becomes automatic and you do it without thinking.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 5:00 pm 
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Well, did you read my first postings?
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I feel like Im a pretty good conversationalist in group environment but I struggle in 1on1s.

When talking this over with a friend he said that not every conversation has to be a party and that Im making a big deal out of something thats not. Is this true? or should you always strive to lead the conversation and make it as qualitatively high as possible?
Leading conversations that much = not caring about her own thoughts, looking down on her.
In parties this is okay because you're supposed to be having fun, not talking about anything serious.
"Caring about her thoughts too early"
If you don't pay attention to what she says she is going to notice it.

"would devalue a man a majority of the time"
Yes, but is valuing always a good thing? Not caring about her thoughts would devalue her, would mean you're looking down on her, would make her uncomfortable, and would make her leave.

"A conversation doesn't necessarily have to be anything of substance as long as you are demonstrating that you are attractive. "
Attractive in what way? In the sense that you're not pushing them away? But that's what you're doing. Or are you gonna say it's their fault that you pushed them away, that they don't find you attractive despite you being so?

"Once that is learned, your behavior becomes automatic and you do it without thinking."
You mean once you've conditioned yourself to not care about her thoughts and always see yourself as attractive despite all cues?


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 6:06 pm 
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The Grand Puba
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Well, did you read my first postings?
Yeah...I read it. It was my polite way of saying that your first post is pretty much bullshit.
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"Caring about her thoughts too early"
If you don't pay attention to what she says she is going to notice it.
And at the same time, if she finds you attractive, she's going to let you get away with it.
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"would devalue a man a majority of the time"
Yes, but is valuing always a good thing? Not caring about her thoughts would devalue her, would mean you're looking down on her, would make her uncomfortable, and would make her leave
If a woman values you it's always a good thing. If the guy leads the conversation and she finds him attractive, she's going to try to conform to what he says in order to become more attractive to him. This works for women because our masculine thinking appreciates that. Men on the other hand aren't burdened with the responsibility of conforming our thoughts to a woman. Our responsibility, as men, is having a strong character because feminine thinking appreciates that. All of the rest of it about making her feeling like you are looking down on her and not caring on an initial meet is bullshit.

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PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2015 5:35 pm 
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"And at the same time, if she finds you attractive, she's going to let you get away with it."
For how long? Forever? For how long does good looks can compensate for neglectful, disrespectful, dull behavior?

"she's going to try to conform to what he says in order to become more attractive to him."
Because he's attractive... and says a lot of bullshit... she'll try to comform to the bullshit he says despite her own thoughts... in order to become more attractive to him? As if attracting men is all about agreeing and comforming to what they say, and she'd be more than happy to live a life like that, in her partner's shadow, as long as the man keeps on being attractive?

"Our responsibility, as men, is having a strong character because feminine thinking appreciates that."
And are you in accord with that responsibility of having a strong character, when everything you do and say is with the purpose of being more attractive and getting girls? Which part of that do you think they would admire?

"All of the rest of it about making her feeling like you are looking down on her and not caring on an initial meet is bullshit."
So her impression of you does not matter when you're trying to be attractive to her? When you're trying to get a good response from her? The tone you set on a first meet is the tone she'll expect from the following ones. If she responds nicely to the first, you already know what she'll expect from the others, how she views you, and how to use the baggage you gathered from the previous encounters in the next ones.


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PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2015 6:31 pm 
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"And at the same time, if she finds you attractive, she's going to let you get away with it."
For how long? Forever? For how long does good looks can compensate for neglectful, disrespectful, dull behavior?

"she's going to try to conform to what he says in order to become more attractive to him."
Because he's attractive... and says a lot of bullshit... she'll try to comform to the bullshit he says despite her own thoughts... in order to become more attractive to him? As if attracting men is all about agreeing and comforming to what they say, and she'd be more than happy to live a life like that, in her partner's shadow, as long as the man keeps on being attractive?

"Our responsibility, as men, is having a strong character because feminine thinking appreciates that."
And are you in accord with that responsibility of having a strong character, when everything you do and say is with the purpose of being more attractive and getting girls? Which part of that do you think they would admire?

"All of the rest of it about making her feeling like you are looking down on her and not caring on an initial meet is bullshit."
So her impression of you does not matter when you're trying to be attractive to her? When you're trying to get a good response from her? The tone you set on a first meet is the tone she'll expect from the following ones. If she responds nicely to the first, you already know what she'll expect from the others, how she views you, and how to use the baggage you gathered from the previous encounters in the next ones.
You have no idea what attractive means when it comes to seduction. You are basing it on looks when it is so much deeper than that. You have no idea what leading a conversation means, because you think it's him talking without her having anything to say. As long as you have those beliefs, you and I will fundamentally disagree with each other. While people that have experience with women will understand exactly what I'm talking about because they have an actual foundation of beliefs because of real experience with women, I'm not going to be able to communicate it with you because you are not grounded in that reality.

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PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2015 10:56 pm 
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Your issue is strictly a confidence issue that can easily be corrected if you just begin putting yourself out there more. All of your questions stem from the same problem I believe. You're not out there approaching. It doesn't sound like you made any approaches and thats what this forum is all about.

You're going to have to take more risk.

When you have that confidence you don't have to "think" about leading a conversation, you will naturally lead it. You'll learn to just chill and flow. Not ever conversation has to be a party? I'm not sure what that means, but there are many different facets of conversation. Story changing, hypothetical situations, teasing banter etc. As long as its flowing you're usually golden.
What you're saying is that his issues come from lack of conditioning, even if he doesn't know what he's supposed to do, what he's supposed to be conditioning himself for. And then you say he doesn't need to think about it as if he was already conditioned to it.
Was confused by Eddie's response at first as well. I did get what he was trying to say, but it doesn't really help or answer the specific question and didn't really add anything, except the start of a whole new conversation full of back and forth talk that don't really answer the question either . I do understand what he is trying to say, though, but people here need to remember that everyone here is at a different skill level, so you cannot be sort of vague and just expect everyone to get it just because it's pretty much "common sense" to you. Some things do have to be explained thoroughly for it to be fully understood by the people seeking answers and assistance here.

Anyway, I'll come back with an actual answer of my own to try to help as well, if I think of one.

I saw the first few replies were ok, but then the entire conversation sort of "fell off" after that. .... As a matter of fact, I paused in typing to read the rest of the comments to see if it gets better and I now feel that this particular entire thread is pretty much a distraction, only good for entertaining those who are bored and like to watch a forum debate based on semantics. While I have gained enough experience to understand where everyone here is coming from and trying to say with their answers, I must admit that the information presented in this thread most likely wont help anyone here, though. These type of responses will only confuse those who are still having questions similar to what the original poster was asking or leave them feeling as if their question remains unanswered.


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PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2015 2:12 am 
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The Grand Puba
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These type of responses will only confuse those who are still having questions similar to what the original poster was asking or leave them feeling as if their question remains unanswered.
Here's the point that was trying to be expressed to you. You're good at conversation in groups and you understand how to do that. The way to become good at one on one conversations with women is to have them with women. The first barrier you'll break is that, "I'm not good at this." The second barrier you'll break is "it's hard to come up with something to say". Once you break that barrier, everything will be natural and just how you are good with the group convos, you'll be good with the one on one convos.

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PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2015 9:47 am 
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Your issue is strictly a confidence issue that can easily be corrected if you just begin putting yourself out there more. All of your questions stem from the same problem I believe. You're not out there approaching. It doesn't sound like you made any approaches and thats what this forum is all about.

You're going to have to take more risk.

When you have that confidence you don't have to "think" about leading a conversation, you will naturally lead it. You'll learn to just chill and flow. Not ever conversation has to be a party? I'm not sure what that means, but there are many different facets of conversation. Story changing, hypothetical situations, teasing banter etc. As long as its flowing you're usually golden.
What you're saying is that his issues come from lack of conditioning, even if he doesn't know what he's supposed to do, what he's supposed to be conditioning himself for. And then you say he doesn't need to think about it as if he was already conditioned to it.
Was confused by Eddie's response at first as well. I did get what he was trying to say, but it doesn't really help or answer the specific question and didn't really add anything, except the start of a whole new conversation full of back and forth talk that don't really answer the question either . I do understand what he is trying to say, though, but people here need to remember that everyone here is at a different skill level, so you cannot be sort of vague and just expect everyone to get it just because it's pretty much "common sense" to you. Some things do have to be explained thoroughly for it to be fully understood by the people seeking answers and assistance here.

Anyway, I'll come back with an actual answer of my own to try to help as well, if I think of one.

I saw the first few replies were ok, but then the entire conversation sort of "fell off" after that. .... As a matter of fact, I paused in typing to read the rest of the comments to see if it gets better and I now feel that this particular entire thread is pretty much a distraction, only good for entertaining those who are bored and like to watch a forum debate based on semantics. While I have gained enough experience to understand where everyone here is coming from and trying to say with their answers, I must admit that the information presented in this thread most likely wont help anyone here, though. These type of responses will only confuse those who are still having questions similar to what the original poster was asking or leave them feeling as if their question remains unanswered.
Well, my final answer would then be, you don't need to lead the conversation when one-on-one, you can let the girl do the talk too, and that's actually ideal to build rapport, because you're both trying to 'know each other.' If you feel uncomfortable with that, because you're not controlling the flow of the conversation in exclusivity, remember that there's no need for that this time, no need for a direction. You're just throwing thoughts and memories around and having fun doing so. What you're trying to reach is not a specific conclusion, solution or answer, but a certain state, a state of being comfortable enough around each other to take it to the next step.


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