Approval Giving and Male Obstacles



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:43 pm 
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- Disclaimer-

I understand there is more than one 'right' way of doing things. My game is different from most of you, hence these tips may not work for you as well as they do for me. The only reason for posting the following is that the principles outlined here are universal - if I get you thinking about them, understanding them and finding other ways of applying them, my purpose will be served.

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What I'm about to tell you isn't rocket science. What it is, however, is counter-intuitive. It's not exactly difficult, and by the time you finish reading, you will think 'I dont see what all the fuss was about in the first place', but trust me – it will hit you. Slowly, over time. You'll do a couple low-risk experiments and see questionable results, but this information will always be there in the back of your head and eventually, you'll start utilizing its full potential. But only use it when the time is right.
In our line of business, the ability to make people like you is crucial. How do most people go about it? If you've taken an 'pickup for dummies' course, you'll be right in saying: kissing ass, right off the bat. The cliche of starting a relationship of any kind by buying someone a drink instantly springs to mind. Not that this is always a bad idea; of course, unless you are a social retard, being nice will work more often than not. But there are two basic fallacies people fall for here. First, you all know that unless you've had to work for something, you will never, ever value it. Attachment comes from investment – the more you invest of something, be it time, money or effort, the more attached you become to the outcome. If your respect and admiration comes to people without effort, its value to them will be close to zero. Which brings us to the secnod point – if a little niceness is good, more must be better, right? I'm sure you've noticed this before – the more someone kisses up to you without a good reason, the less you value it. If some critical point is reached, you may even start to despise the person.

My recent dabbling in douchebaggery led me to a curious conclusion. Sure, I insult people a lot and most of them don't appreciate it. The twist comes when as soon as someone stands up to me, or even makes an astute point in an interaction, I immediately have an opportunity to turn it around.

'You know what... you're alright, kid.'

I flaunt the fact that I'm a misanthrope. I'll always, always throw in a line about how most of the people you meet on an average day are completely fucking retarded. Again, this is a truism – unless you're SPAM Gandhi, you don't get along with everybody. When you think about it, most people really have nothing to show for themselves, and paradoxically, this is a point everyone can relate to. Genetically and to an extent socially, we are programmed to like people who are similar to us. In a culture where individuality is emphasized, there are bound to be differences – hence:

'Most people are fucking stupid. So, in the interest of saving time, I assume I'm talking to an idiot until I'm proven wrong. I call this the Guantanamo Bay approach to human relationships.'

Straight off the bat, you're making your approval scarce. Withdrawing supply intuitively raises the price – or in this case, the value – of your approval. You need to establish that you don't just give out approval for free before you give any of it away. Like I said before, being nice or giving compliments straightaway can come off as kiss-ass – and the better someone's social calibration, the better they are at spotting a kiss-ass.

So when it is crucial to get someone on your side – the girl's brother, her boyfriend, even the girl, coming to think of it – my basic model is establishing that I'm hard to please, busting on them a little (creating some negative tension) before flipping the switch and finally being friendly. If I could be asked to dabble in MS Paint, I'd draw you a graph plotting tension (positive and negative) on the vertical axis and time on the horizontal. It doesn't take a genius to imagine that if you go from zero to some level of positive, you've travelled a shorter way than if you started somewhere below zero and arrived at the same level of positive – draw a picture if it helps you. If you've ever had the displeasure of taking a Social Psychology course, that's probably the only interesting result you've come across.

The final piece of the puzzle? Some of us apply this exact dynamic to girls – negging, qualifying etc. Here's the kicker: it works like a charm on guys as well. It is hands down the most powerful tool for disarming male obstacles in a set I've come across to this day. I never knew you could get guys to buy you drinks without having a vagina, but life and the stupidity of our wiring never cease to amaze me.

In the interest of saving the haters' time, I'll clear up one thing before I wrap up: I make a distinction between 'polite' and 'nice'. I'm not flat-out rude, disrespectful, and insulting for no reason. But if I get a reason to call someone out on something stupid they said (and usually I don't have to wait long) or even play the Devil's advocate in the rare case I agree with them, I instantly go for it. I create the illusion that there's a reason for everything I do other than to follow a specific model, just to be able to flip the switch at some point and play my 'you're alright, kid' card.

_________________
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On we plough.

Love,

Ace


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 3:25 pm 
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Ace very well crafted post. ANd like you said not the only way to go about business but an excellent tool.

A little arrogance... And then you throw a couple carrots their way.

I've seen it work. It's powerful.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 7:05 pm 
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That post takes too long to read. Enough with all the bullshit at the start. Get to the fucking point.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 6:10 am 
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and we have one lazy brain :roll:


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 12:25 pm 
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Firstly are you a fan of Yahtzee?

Secondly I quarter agree, understanding when to give value and when to withhold is about good social calibration.

But the stance seems a little dickish, shooting others down to look cool is how social outcasts try to gain value.

And while you may get it to work it for you ARE being rude, and if she's pissed at you, "you're alright kid" may just be to blatantly obvious to her that your attempting to clear things up without having the balls to actually apologise.

I prefer having a positive frame and keeping that energy rolling, it just allows things to flow alot smoother.


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My view

Give value for christ sake, the only time I withdraw value is when I'm not getting anything reciprocated or I have a genuine hang up about someone.

I prefer to look at myself as an alpha, and the concept of giving value pretty much goes hand in hand with that.

Your thoughts?


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 1:56 pm 
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Quote:
That post takes too long to read. Enough with all the bullshit at the start. Get to the fucking point.
It always warms my heart when someone tries to apply my advice straightaway. Nonetheless - you're interested in what I have to say, you soldier through the bullshit at the start. Except that's not even necessary since we invented skim-reading - it's how I read your comments, by the way ;-)
Quote:
Firstly are you a fan of Yahtzee?
No.
Quote:
And while you may get it to work it for you ARE being rude, and if she's pissed at you, "you're alright kid" may just be to blatantly obvious to her that your attempting to clear things up without having the balls to actually apologise.
Whole point - it works for me. Also, it's not just some shit I made up - there was a psychological study which confirmed that people who got off on the wrong foot and became friends afterwards view their friendship as stronger than those who did not.

The part to take away from it was - do not give value instantly. Make people work for it a little, see how that goes. The whole 'busting on people, then giving value' model has worked on guys as well for me - nobody ever told me it would, hence my decision to share it with y'all.

And final remark - if at some point I genuinely am way outta line, I apologize. Don't try to make me into some super-dickhole. I may be obnoxious and abrasive, but I will never call a fat girl fat unprovoked ;-).

I'm not advocating going fully against mainstream pickup advice, value giving is still a big part of my game. I just don't do it indiscriminately and I time it to serve a purpose, especially at the beginning of the interaction.
[/quote]

_________________
poland-fr-vt14033.html
here-vp88758.html#88758
here-vp102701.html#102701

On we plough.

Love,

Ace


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 4:34 pm 
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The Guantanamo point is a joke on zero punctuation,

"From I've experienced I've found alot of things in this life are shit, and so I assume they are so until they can prove to me otherwise, I like to call it the guantanamo approach to game reviewing."

It made me chuckle (Y)

Actually I felt your post to be kind of WITH mainstream PU advice, I.E. Don't be a kiss ass. Make people work for you.

It's just you've added positivity to the list of supplicating behaviours.

I've got nothing against it, I don't think it won't work or that your making it you as you go along, I'm simply playing devils advocate and shooting at flaws/critiqueing etc.

Would you be capable of providing an example script on how you enter set? That would allow me to get a much clearer look at exactly how you open a set with this, without having your negativity and unwillingness to give value blow you out.


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