Yes this has happened to me....

I open a group of three guys at a bar/club. One guy did a little bit more of the talking, so naturally I answered his questions and stuff. However the guy I was interested in and the other friend backed away because apparently their friend wasn't used to getting girls so they didn't want to mess it up for him or for me to be more interested in them.

I wasn't interested in this guy though (I was interested in his friend). His buddies did the embarrassing head nod and "look" which signals "way to go dude." All his buddies were rooting for him but I just wasn't interested in him. I kept talking to him because he was genuinely nice (but did not really push any of my buttons) and because I figured maybe we could work our way back into the group at which point I could talk to my original target. But after talking so long to this one guy (and with his friends all rooting for him) I realized I could not do that. If I started hitting on his friend the other guy would be crushed and his buddy may not even show interest out of respect for his buddy (but I guess I'll never know). But I just felt that would be too mean...it seemed like girls always went for his friends and not him. It wasn't that serious of a deal, so I just didn't want to come across as a bitch. Yeah you can say it is his fault for not being able to attract the girls like his buddies...but yeah....

Anyway, would it have been ok for me to hit on his friend like I wanted to? Would his friend have showed interest even if he knew his buddy liked me but was striking out? Or was I right just to let it go, have a nice chat with this dude and then move on like I wanted.

This happens to me sometimes when I open the obstacle and plan on working my way over to my target. 1 of 2 things will occur, either I'll quickly give the obstacle some kind of IOD and move my attention to the target while practically ignoring the obstacle for the next minute or two and I'm successful in switching, or I'll try to be nice and then switch later on in order to "not be rude" as I think you put it. If I try to be nice to the obstacle and talk to them for a bit so that I don't seem rude, I always end up blowing the set, every time.

Here's how I've got it figured. If the friends think there's any chance at all of me hooking up with their friend that never gets any, they'll do everything in their power to pull themselves out of the running so that even if the only reason I go for her is because I'm desperate and drunk, at least she gets laid. They pity her and want her to gain a little self confidence by seeing that she can get a guy too and they won't fuck it up for her, even if they like me and can tell I'd prefer them because they know they can get another guy if they want to.

Flip it around and it makes perfect sense to me because I'll do it for my buddies. If there's a girl that is talking to one of my friends that never has any success with women, then I'll do everything in my power to make her like him and if she starts showing interest in me I'll do all sorts of stupid shit to make her not interested in me. I've told really hot girls that I'm gay and then played it up for 10 minutes and pretended to be attracted to the guy I'm winging in order to make him seem more attractive via pre-selection (gay men typically have great taste as well) and make her more attracted to him than me. I'll start hitting on some ugly chick in order to make her think I'm not into her and force her to show him more attention.

I think it's guilt. Guilt is one of the most powerful emotions there is and if you feel guilty that your friend doesn't get any and you do, then you'll give away your ticket in order to make them feel special and give them that chance they never get. Even if that person makes it clear that they aren't interested in your friend and they are interested in you, now you're gonna feel extra bad that your friend can't get any even when you give it to them, so you're going to reject it in order to try and save their feelings from being hurt. Bros before hos, right? Hell, there's been times when I've wanted to go for a chick that I knew my friend couldn't get, but I just would have felt so bad that I couldn't make myself do it.

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"The 'Brick Walls' are there to allow you to prove how badly you want something!" ~ Randy Pausch

~ Rye

I'm no PUA but I'll throw an opinion..Generally from own experience with friends, guys will back off when a woman shows interest in them or when they're doing well with a girl ("We don't know eachother"-thoughtline). This is out of respect or politeness. You know this obviously

Many guys will take what you did as an IOI toward the guy and the target will experience an IOD. You should IOD the obstacle here pretty early on, some kind of light neg will probably throw him off. I do think women should generally directly approach the male target and IOI him, many men just won't get it if you start befriending their friends or such. This has happened many times to me aswell, some girl hovers, then approach my friends yet she's interested in me and I never get it. I just IOD them and let my friend talk, then he'll say "well, it was you she was staring at lol" afterwards and I'll sigh at the complexity of it all

Ohh man, this is soo helpful to many of us. Guys don't really understand why girls will answer questions, but not escalate. Here ya go =]

but.. i would've asked him some questions about his friends so that he could start talking about the guy you were interested in.
you could have then branched off and talked to him for a while, unless he really wanted his friend to hook up with you.

i would've just told the guy the truth if i were you. LJBF him and try to get him to help you with your target.
if he acts like an asshole, you now have an excuse to get mad at him.
if he helps out, well.. you've got a wingman ;]]

<33 Grape

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http://highschoolpuas.proboards.com

http://highschoolpuas.proboards.com

Grape's eBook of 2009 (71 pages of useful information) http://www.scribd.com/doc/24523878/Grap ... ok-of-2009

hehe
That is the thing, I had tried to say "oh you should introduce me to your buddies" in an attempt to talk to my original target again. I tried talking to my target again when in the group but it was loud and the only way for me to talk to anyone was get really close...thus ignore the rest of the group. And his buddies (including the target) adopted the "bros before ho's" code. And I just didn't want to be mean and be yet another girl that wants to talk to his friend and not him. I could tell he wasn't used to a girl talking to him. But i didn't lead him on by giving him my number or anything.

But that guy I was talking to (and not so interested in) was so adamant in asking me more questions and isolating me. I felt obligated to answer and not be rude. And like I said, it was so loud that the whole group couldn't hear what I was saying, I could only talk to one person at a time really.

Trying to be nice can suck sometimes...

I've had that happen before where i opened a group of girls and the ugly one stole the show and my target left. Never again

its a cold ruthless world sacrifices must be made
you should have ditched the guy you didn't like

you should have just opened your target directly problem solved
your thinking in terms of guys opening a group of women
its different for men they'll just be happy/relieved you opened them without them having to do the work to open you first

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Friendzone 1-vt51424.html?postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

you may not know it but those are some good friends right there lol ive had friends who when im talking to a girl they say those stupid things that just make everything awkward.

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I think David Rasmussen has the answer to your question Bonita.

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afc-challenge-to-the-masters-social-anx ... 10108.html

Hahaha I've seen that video before...I learned SO much. It really helped me transform my game

Here's what I've learned this weekend -

When you see your target, make sure to make eye contact with him briefly or get his attention somehow (walk by, bump into him, excuse yourself, smile and walk away). He should notice you just generally being alive.

Then, when he's away from the group or engaged somewhere else open with his friends with very platonic conversation. Have very platonic body language, that means, don't lean in too much, don't make too much eye contact, no kino, etc.

When your target comes back to join his friends and you, change your body language towards him (eye contact, lean in closer, tilt your head slightly when talking to him). His friends should introduce you to him by now, but if they don't, you can just turn to him and be like.. and you are??? or.. so you boys aren't going to introduce me???

After you gauge the guy's interest, after about 5 min, you can isolate him from the group and take it from there.

I think this approach works best b/c you've already created social proof with his friends, you have immediate conversation topics - his friends, and your intentions (you like him) are clear but still open up to interpretation (or are you just being friendly), in fact, I'd actually start out with being fairly friendly and slowly increase the eye contact and get sexier and sexier..

So the three most important points:

1. He should notice you before hand.
2. Open with him not around (whenever possible I always try to DHV by making the guy come to me, even if its to rejoin his friends).
3. The body language directed towards him and his friends should make your intentions clear.

If the above doesn't work, consider the possibility that the guy could just be a douchebag.

Field tested this weekend.

Hope this helps! Let me know if it works

I think for a female its best to directly open your target rather than the obstacles. The reason a guy opens the female/male obstacles because they are truly "obstacles." Its not like that when a female approaches a group of guys. They are not going to see you as threatening at all. The guy you approach is the guy that the rest of the group is going to think you are interested in.

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"To Give anything less than your best is to sacrifice the gift" -Prefontaine

Not a PUA just a girl offering my opinions/advice

Here's the THUNDERescape technique. You give the guy your phone number really fast and dip out and tell him to call you.

Here's the THUNDERtwist though, you change the last digit of your phone number to something else, so he can't call you.

For example:

Your number is 912 556 7788

You give him 912 556 778#.

It comes off legit, it dismisses the target, and you are stalker free.

Spread the word, it's THUNDERmagic.

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I'm addicted to facing my fears.

I agree its this simple :
Why make life more complicated, oppotunaties are missed too often through over thinking and planning...
Men go out in groups for friendship and courage, women do the same but are there to filter the douchebags out aswell..

Gaming guys : remember most are AFCs - and to be approached is a huge badge of alpha status - those that dont get approached have to do the approaching.
A simple eye contact or bump in passing as Stella says with a smile and a follow me look (kino some more etc)

Dont forget the rule for most PUAs is get the girl to approach you by being open, fun etc.. isnt it? so like some women would say DIRECT is sometimes better. If he is a douche BAIL .

J1f

Multi posted due to server error! Jif

Cant see Hula vids outside of US
J1f