Just some quick thoughts I had in trying to help a client understand a sticking point last night. Many people can probably benefit from this so I figured I would throw it out there this weekend.
There is something for the beginner to the highly advanced in this who don't yet understand some of these concepts.
By the way for the new guys, don't take my low post count to mean I am inexperienced, I just started posting here recent, but am well known in the community and have been teaching this stuff for ages.
The problem I see is that so many guys seem to want things in this game 100%, every rejection just bites their ass.
Ideally there should be NO rejections in this game right?
I mean we are what 15 years in the community? We should have a no fail, works every time system approach to lay, barring massive chaotic cockblocking or the club catching fire etc. I don't mean as an idealist complaint though. I mean we SHOULD have a system that is fairly fool proof by now, that many seem to clamor for. Or hell at least a guaranteed say 20% approach to lay method? Too much to ask for? No "witty" just approach fat chicks" lameness please. I mean a real system to bang the hottest women no boyfriend exceptions, no last minute resistance etc etc etc.
15 years has not gone to waste.
The whole of the community HAS JUST THAT SYSTEM. In various techniques and methods out there. There is an answer that works very well, maybe 90% of the time for any given problem that comes up between the approach to the lay. In another system or method, another way just as good, and so on and so on. Except one problem area, I will explain later.
I will explain it in this post why it isn't this 100% style "every woman every time" game in the pickup scene and why no systems or methods or gurus consistently can always pull approach to lay 100%
Also Spare me the zen speech "it isn't about how many approaches you do to get laid" "it's about enjoying talking to women" crap also.
In that case, lets just pull the plug and forget the whole thing, I mean why take your game to the highest
possible level of effeciency? Why even learn how to get basic rapport? Effective closing? Just talk to women forever until one asks you to fuck her.
I LOVE talking to my best friend, more than ANY chick. I LOVE spending time with my mom when I can.
Soooo don't talk to anyone else, who I don't enjoy talking to just as much? Just because I also want to stick my dick in these other people not JUST talk to them?
Lets not delude ourselves that far, yeah the game is fun, but figuring it out is somewhat of a goal to that game......
My original Gunwitch method flipped the game upside down because I was trying to explain shit, to make people better, and a LOT got better because of it. Some of them same people now act like you are supposed to not analyze anything or learn anything ever?
If you agree that you should ONLY enjoy the process and not analyze it ever, then get lost and stop reading what a genius types!
P.S Try not to get your hand stuck in a pringles can or anything.
Anyway I went on a rant, the reason why no one is 100% is simple,
The hook phase. Getting her initial desire to have "more of you". The first minute after you approach roughly.
That is where everyone that is really good, gets caught up consistent,
I mean approaching and opening, duh, any idiot can open with almost anything reasonable and get blown out 1 in maybe
20 sets at worst.
Once conversation is going, there are a plethora of methods, systems, techniques etc for rapport
and attraction and arousal. The community is flooded with the stuff.
In fact most work, in closing, simple persistence, and back and forthing and kino escalation, simple stuff also.
The HOOK is the problem. Getting between the opener, and the conversation happening is where all the
micro calibrations, high noting, eye contact, base sexual vibe vs afc vibe (thats a HUGE fuck up there,
that many guys learn they can ALWAYS hook with no sexual vibe, that then LATER makes it impossible to fuck close).
The point is the hook is a mix of several factors, not one repeatable memorized technique like much of the rest of the game can be. That's the catch 22, the obvious, socially workable hook, fucks up later stages of game.
I mean the average guy can do maybe 20 approaches, 20 attempts to close, have twenty
lengthy conversations with a girl who is attracted and figure out those aspects of his game with
just simple field time and knowing a way to deal with that stage. The hook though is where the field work comes in and you have to get foundation material on base auto pilot through LOTS of work, to where it becomes second nature.
I mean when I am out of the field for a while then go back and am rusty, I didn't forget anything, I mean come on. I fucking do interviews and get asked everything about my game, and while I hold back some on purposeso as to not give away my whole method, so I can make sales of course, I can explain anything
on command instantly, even if I am rusty in field.
Plus I wont get a woman home and not be able to fuck her, or open and get blown out over and over
or get in a conversation and be unable to get rapport because I forgot some technique or structure
I use. I fail to hook more often when rusty, because I ain't a good looking guy, so don't have it for
backup. I have to have my vibe down properly. Its like sparring vs sitting on the couch before
having a boxing match. It flows natural and is in "muscle memory" mentally what gets good
responses and what doesn't, and takes several approaches to get back going properly.
Warm up sets aren't what I am talking about here either, a beginner can warm up and still suck,
I am talking Floyd Mayweather in fighting shape, and sparring regular pre fight, vs
3 months since he stepped in a ring. Sure I can rock the house compared to some new guy without
being in field regular, but the hook is going to take a while to get going at a powerful level.
My breakdown is something like this when I am in field regular of rejections to lay:
Not in field for 2 months:
Say 20 approaches, bad weekend trying to get a lay, no numbers (I usually don't work for numbers),
Rejected on opener: 1
Rejected right post opener: 10
Rejected In conversation:3
Cockblocked beyond prevention/chaos:3 (less daygame)
Rejected on venue change close: 3
I fuck up/eject when I shouldn't have: 2
Full approach to lay: 1
(By rejected I mean it is going nowhere fast/bad vibe, not a drink thrown in my face, i've never had a drink
thrown in my face by the way, in 17 years, for you scared newbies, thats a vibe thing. I'll fuckin rip her stinking ass dumb club skank shirt off and wipe my face off, then my ass with it. I am talking anal contact with the piece of clothing if I get a drink thrown in my face, so they just don't. I mean I may as well get thrown out anyway at that point. I don't advise that by the way, I can handle repercussions, plus some, you might get beat up, just saying don't expect (or theyll sense it is ok to) and especially don't tolerate something like that in this game. Either Women are fairly psychic with me or these thrown drink rejections are made up anyway.)
Anyway.....
Where once I am in field for a few days, a week, or for a couple weeks (it varies) the breakdown goes:
Rejected on opener: 1
Rejected right post opener: 3
Rejected In conversation:2
Cockblocked beyond prevention/chaos:2 (less daygame)
Rejected on venue change close: 1
I fuck up/eject when I shouldn't have: 1
Full approach to lay: 1
Give or take, it's just an example. I have done streaks of getting laid every 5 approaches, to every 20,
don't be a newb and focus on that, refocus on my point here and help your game.
The point is while a few other things lessen as problems, the BIG one, that even I, someone in the game 17 years (and every guru in the game ages who is good, bad, or in between) gets rusty on, and that makes his game consistently FAIL is the hook stage.
Even great looking pick up gurus fail on this stage because they have a certain looks, they don't morph in to each targets ideal man magically, so some women aren't attracted to them the same as others. I have seen good looking guys have MORE problems at this stage because they never learn the base vibe to make the hook work consistent. For these guys being every dozen women they approach or so, that 1 corresponds magically to their look and is instantly attracted, they get a sense of the game being "just a numbers game" or "it just happens". They get this because they don't persist to learning, more appropriately named, training, their mind to project the right vibe for any given chick. Their brain also has a harder time figuring out on its own, which approaches, projected states, vibes, actions etc are getting them a positive result, because sometimes they get a positive result without doing the right thing.
This is the missing piece of MOST peoples game. There is no "magic hook", I am sure
plenty of know it alls will say they have one, and many a guru would say their product contains it.
Many products do actually, mine does as a matter of fact, as a series of vibe principles and body language etc. I am talking a single isolated technique that works every single time and can be used without being in practice.
If so and you have this then you can approach EVERY chick and ALWAYS get talking to her at length? Yet you can't fuck every woman you approach? I haven't heard any guru, make that claim, so I guess not. If so,
What is it you don't get about the rest of the structure of approach to lay then?
Like I said, it is all very very simple with just a little field time to master the rest of the structure, so if you can hook every time, where are you blowing it that consistently as to not have the highest approach to lay rate ever?
And share your 100%, hell even 20%, successful hook that works for an afc with no vibe, tactic with the community, maybe make an ebook and become the biggest thing since I dunno, 5 other gurus put together!?
Realistically though "the hook" is your overall vibe, which consists of maybe 25 or 30 things that
you project in the first minute of talking to her post opener, all taught in the scene, by different
gurus and all some leave out a bunch, some give too many (not needed ones), but the point is,
you can't do them ALL via memory, in field. Even once they become autopilot if you get rusty
you forget several at a time, and each approach gets your brain back "working for its reward" which is
good reactions that go beyond simple small talk, and in to a general desire from her for more
of your presence.
I think of it much like a martial art, or a fight.
Her brain, my brain, the vibe is the combat. (Yeah yeah bad frame, i'm trying to explain something here more complicated than frame, so shut up.......)
And much like a guy who knows every single brazillian jiu jitsu move and doesn't train, or hasn't trained
in a very long time, a new guy, or even rusty guy who knows the entire game but doesn't have his "hook vibe" on, will get fucking WRECKED by a high school wrestler who has been preparing for a big meet.
WHOA don't kill the messenger, I know you thought watching that youtube video made you able to defend yourself from big tough guys even though you never tried any of it in training!
WHOA don't kill the messenger, you aren't gonna find a guy who lays every woman he approaches, hell
not even 75% for you to to worship and strive to be. You also aren't going to find an instructor with a
secret "hook" that takes away all the field time to learn the REAL several dozen hooks on auto pilot that you need.
Now you can just post "looks are all that matter" and "this new guy Bobby Christy Hiroshi can fuck any woman!!!!! with his December girl sequence" or "well hehehe har I always get in post approach", uuhh re-read the post. Then why aren't you using basic proven techniques to fuck every chick you open dummy?
Or also re-read this if your game isn't exactly where you want it to be.
If you lament a perfect solution to never be rejected (without AI based game) or especially if
you are new, and have no idea where to start on testing techniques from the mass of too many systems and methods.
To sum it up for that new guy, get a working technique for approaching and opening neutral so she doesn't say to get lost, will take you 1 night.
Then CHOOSE a piece of material you like, be it "assume there is a rapport", a verbal routine you need
because you don't know what to say etc, or even some "hook techniques" from the materials around here.
Work it.
Also have a sexual escalation strategy just in case, and watch for her to get obviously turned on (don't get hung up on that, you will miss it for now a lot) that IS the goal of course, never lose sight of it as number 1 when you see it, and start fucking around with other techniques. If you see "fuck me eyes", ask her to
get alone with you!
Now work that piece of material you chose on women you approach. Realize what you are doing here is getting in a fight and throwing a punch at the opponents face. That simple, only you don't get the boots put to you if you lose. You go start another fight and try to punch them in the face. If they happen to fall down you just got lucky, kick them in the face til they stop moving.
Go talk to hot women, use a piece of material or idea on her, try to keep talking about whatever, fail a lot, get lucky and see her get horny, try to get her alone.
See where it goes from there, because you can have 50 things memorized, and mark my words, she will throw you for a loop of some sort. She being the next 50 women you approach. This is how you will learn your "hook" naturally though is working something that isn't repulsive. From there you can.
Getting in the field is the "sparring" of this community. Don't just watch youtube videos. And SURE AS FUCK don't just hang around the club and get intimidated, get in the ring some! If you don't you will misjudge how hard it looks for how technical/mysterious it is. It isn't.
Now, start to recognize where you are failing, and only use techniques slowly added in, that fit with the initial vibe or the hook. I am talking stuff like eye contact skills voice tonality stuff, initial kino so on and so on. THAT is your reading assignment is to work those materials in as part of you vibe, so you hook better.
Everything else is a waste of time for now, except a base knowledge to watch for her to get horny, and if she does ask her to go home with you.
Once you get your hook strong, you then can learn "in venue isolations", attraction, rapport and arousal skills. Until you can get the initial hook down, via a strong vibe, you are just opening, and will stand there talking, then eject a lot because she isn't interested, or she rejects you "I have to get back to my friends"
or she subtley signals a friend to interupt, or she walks off etc after you talk for a minute. Be warned, your game will freeze here if you don't follow my advice. It's like going to the boxing club, getting your ass kicked for a month and quitting once a year. That is where probably 90% of the guys on these forums who are in field are game wise (see the reply later where someone with 3000 posts corrects my spelling haha, "that boy seem sexually frustrated to me!").
The rest of you all who aren't beginners, I hope this gives you some perspective to give those who may say that the game is bunk because of a lack of 100% approach to lay stats. I hope it gives you something to analyze for a sticking point we ALL face if you are perpetually in "go up and talk and get initial rapport but no vibe" mode.
Don't get discouraged or blame some new line you thought was gold. It might still be, you just failed to hook, because you are rusty (maybe for the 50th time?), or your brain is betraying you to project the proper vibe at the moment. If you are good, you probably have 95% impeccable technique, don't forget that, and feel like shit even when you aren't rusty and can't hook here and there. You just got dropped your guard and got KOed in the scramble that is the initial back and forth vibe, it happens, even to the best of the best, and regularly if you are actually in field.
Gun
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http://www.wayofgun.com
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