Lets talk about failure guys.

This is my year of failure. I've had many failures, everyone hurt, but I keep pushing on and learning. On one hand it's extremely frustrating, putting in so much work to not get her in the end, on the other the big failures, the ones I care about are the ones I learn from the most.

This whole year has been failure, with successes of course, bit just many failures.

So how many times did you fail before you got to where you're at now? I'm curious, cause a few guys on this forum know their shit, so it would be interesting to know how you were before that. And was there a point where it suddenly clicked? Or was it always progressive?

what do you even consider as failure? something that is completely random and outside of your control?

No. Something that was in your control, but either you had no knowledge of how to proceed (for example a situation you hadn't encountered before), you were too insecure/afraid to proceed (possibly because of fear of rejection or losing the girl), or you fucked up somehow (things going smoothly, but for some reason said or did a stupid thing which turned her off).

Stuff like that.

e.g. - out of your control, if it was within your control and you could predict the future, you would know how to proceed

stepping into the unknown, with an unknown solution to a problem that has not been faced before, will generate a completely random unknown response

using the type of reactions you get, to guage improvement is a poor measuring stick, how often you challenge yourself will more then likely offer you more improvment, reaching some sort of positive/negative outcome is fairly irrelivant when it comes to improvement as you will be able to learn from both success and failure as long as you challenge yourself, if you fail repeatedly, or succeed repeatedly but you never challenge yourself, there will be no growth, only stagnation or deterioration

Agreed.

What do you define as failure?

not trying,

just because I write a post that addresses what you consider as success and failure to explain something to you, does not mean I agree with your point of view
this ^ is what I am getting at

I don't know your backstory, but I am guessing the reason you got into the game was either because you were somehow not has happy with the part of your life dealing with women or relationships, or you were already good and just decided to help.

If we go with with the first option, you most likely had a goal (get better at conversations, sleep with more women, get a girlfriend...). And with a goal in mind, you work your way towards it, but along the way don't reach it through making mistakes or of course unknown circumstances. Making progress is a 2 step forward one step backward process.

I think we are talking about the same thing here. I am using "failure" as a way to describe the 1 step back. A failure is a success, yes, as you learn from it and you begin to challenge yourself and take action. However, in a simple scenario, where a girl is in your room, it's on, you will either fuck her or not. Fucking her is "success" in this case, not fucking her is "failure", as it was within your control, yet you either read the situation wrongly or made some silly mistake. You may argue that not fucking her is not failure, as you should not be outcome dependent.

But I really didn't want this thread to be a debate about what is failure. I really just genuinely wanted to know how long it took you to become good.

so what is your post about then?, I don't quite understand, you didn't clearly define failure, but your question is how many times did you fail?, then you relate how many times you fail to a rate of improvement, and how that reflects your current status/situation with women in life (or at least this is what I assume), your questions are pretty hard to answer without a context around them, and improvement is fairly subjective from person to person depending on how far they push themselves, positive/negative reactions from women have very little to do with a rate of progress as you can improve from either, and managing to consistently get positive reactions or managing to consistently get negative reactions does not nessicarily indicate growth

how long did it take me to reach my goals?, around 1 year of constant effort to reach my initial goals, and I am still no where near where I want to be

A very clear example; my goal has been to get a girlfriend. Until now I have not reached that goal. I have come closer and closer to reaching it, but have not reached it. So in my personal point of view, each girl that was a potential and I made some turn that impeded her from becoming my girlfriend, I consider a failure.

Most pickup stuff will teach you how to get her interested, but not be as useful when it comes to getting into and maintaining a relationship. If you're "coming closer and closer" you really aren't failing at all. I mean, yeah, it is a failure in the sense you didn't reach your goal, but as long as you are making progress it can't be viewed as a total failure. You're learning.

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Hi, I'm A. Fahren and I'm an author. I love to travel, socialize, and am hopelessly addicted to movies. That's about it.

A real failure is a failure to learn from your mistakes.

A rejection may feel like a failure but isnt really a failure since you now know better what not to do.

If you mean rejection but write failure, I can say that I have failed countless times and still do. The difference is that earlier, my successratio was low and now it is high compared to how much I approach.

You win some and you lose some, you cant catch them all, this is not pokemon.

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I'm not trying to be a dick Ezo, but you're being a Pick Up Snob in my opinion.

bbardot: you just reminded me about porn

Many people around the world fail. Man i was so stubborn to listen to my parents this year and that costs me my final year in high school. It was a big failure. And i have learned from it, because this year i will put more work into it.

Failures, rejections and stuff like that aren't bad, as long as you learn from it. Writing failures down, is actually quite helpful, you then have insight in what you did wrong.

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The Learning Journal:
--> wallies-journal-vt141967.html

success is 95% failure

Ok we have this train festival in the town I grew up in. Every year they had this dance, I was really young like 10. I went around to 24 girls and got rejected. Thinking it was funny, I started bragging to my brother about it. The minute I tell him how many times I got rejected by and to watch me get laughed at some more, I walk up to 2 twins much older then me and asked them to dance, I ended up making out with them both. This was the the second time I kissed a girl. Rejection should be one of the best parts of pick up it always makes for a great story, so please tell us yours.

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Heres to our children, may their fathers be rich and their mother be beautiful

It's definitely progressive. At a certain point, you stop "counting" in a sense, because failure isn't really so black and white. Many of us when we were starting saw each girl as an individual "target", if you will. But after awhile they become people again and you can have many relationships, both friendships and sexual relationships. Many friendships can turn into sexual relationships, and vice versa. If you cut girls off when you find out they only want/can have a friendship with you at that point in time, it's going to seem much more like "failure" and you'll just be closing all kinds of doors. But yeah, I'd say it took about two years to realize that after I started becoming interested in social dynamics and the like.

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Every girl is different. But not TOO different.

In the end, It's not about girls.