I have been studying a lot of seduction for awhile, but what I realized was that all the information could be found in sales books, persuasion and influence texts, and the such, with a few basic social skills that are easily meant with Leil Lowndes. Either way, I'm 247 pounds, I have forehead acne that I am finally getting rid of, but, only recently, and I have massive fat deposits (instead of just being a heavy person) in my chest and thighs--though they are significantly less than the past), this is to say, that I am the furthest away from Gambler, Adam Lyons, or most of the PUA's. And yet, these techniques I have found have turned what was once a challenging thing for me--cold approaching--into an easy and almost rejectionless activity.

Rule #1. Sell To People Only Interested in Buying (with this technique when I was selling insurance--going against the principle I was taught in training, I cut my work day down from 40 hours to 20 hours, and sold more products every week for 8 months, than any salesman and broke the record twice). How does this apply in seduction? How can you tell if they're interested, without even approaching them? How do you avoid the number game? There are three signals that a man can elicit from a woman without saying a word, each one a welcome for him to approach, but getting all three almost guarantees no rejection, and a fourth (of the 12 women I stopped in the day who displayed this, only one didn't give me their number, of the three in the club--didn't do much club game--that displayed it, I went home with two of them that night, and got the number of the third). The first signal is eye contact--if she hold your eye contact it is an IOI (but not a strong one). The second is if while you have her eye you smile, she smiles back--this is a stronger one, and it is a guarantee for a warm approach (meaning no worry about being rejected coldly just for saying hello, or for talking to her and asking her number--for people who worry about that). Three, the penultimate opener, a near guarantee of at least getting a number (1 in 3), the raising of the eyebrows, if you raise your eyebrows, and she responds in some way (curiosity--as in she's trying to place where she's seen you before), a bigger smile, or a raise of the eyebrows back, you have captured her attention. Now, the Ultimate Signal, if you get this and don't approach, you are missing the golden ticket. If her eyes dart from down to up your body--this means you've met several facial characteristics that in her subconscious she links to attractiveness, and her need to know more about your physical and formal status have been triggered (being well dressed helps in this, but is not a requirement). With this signal, you are actually doing her a disservice by not approaching her and talking to her.

2. Whether you've taken the eye contact as an IOI opener, or waited for the Penultimate IOI opener, or the ultimate IOI opener, what you say no longer matters much. Finding something of interest about her or the location you're at, it should be an open ended question that can't be answered in one word. Forget all the PUA junk, you can be complementative if it's sincere (never give false praise), you get far more with genuine interest in the person, if there's nothing for you to genuinely compliment on.

3. How to avoid rejection? Avoiding rejection doesn't mean that you get every girl's number. It means that when the number's not there for you to have, you bail out, and leave her be. Part of Rule #1, never sell to someone who isn't buying. First let me tell you biological reason behind this. In the PUA community much is made of evolutionary biology and how to utilize it to create attraction. But, there's more to it, psychosexual development plays a role as well. Every man and woman go through a sexual imprinting from birth to about 8 years old, though we're born with a psychosexual identity, the characteristics that will trigger our arousal and attractiveness have not yet been cemented, because of that, as we grow up we develop traits of eroticism to literally dozens of features and characteristics--above and beyond those of the evolutionary biological ones that we are programmed with. In the science of influence and persuasion, it's discovered that within four seconds, we naturally shuffle people into one of several boxes, yes/no/maybe. Now, it's not impossible to go from a no to a maybe to a yes, but why bother. Why not focus on the people who are naturally putting you into the yes and maybe box, instead of working on the women that are putting you into the no box.

A Note On Sexual Imprinting: In case you're thinking that I'm suggesting that you can't go after the hottest women, that's not it at all. Sexual Imprinting explains why a 45 year old biker, with a santa beard and matching stomach, beds a 19 year old girl who dropped out of Community College. It also explains why writers like Bukowski and Sartre slept with dozens of women, many very beautiful. From psychological needs, to visual stimulation, if a woman's attention can be brought to you, she needs only one characteristic to find you attractive and a possible mate.

With that explained. There are five IOI's that you must look for. The feet. Where the feet are the heart is, if she turns her feet toward you, you have captured her attention and meant a criteria. Hair touching--constant hair touching--much has been made of the hair touch, but a singular touch or an occasional move from the face may be just that, it is with the constant touching of the hair that it has become an unconscious act. Lip biting or lip licking this unconscious act (which connected with other things--especially the feet) are a clear sign of attraction and arousal. Deliberate touching, friendly swatting, and other acts are clear signs of attraction. The ultimate sign pupil dilation. One's pupils dilate when they want something, or attracted to something, or aroused by something (though this can be adjusted for low lighting, whenever the eyes have that twinkle in them from expanded pupils). If you don't get any IOI's within 1 to 2 minutes of a conversation, bail on it, and approach someone else.

4. A Status Introduction, Or The Power of Touch: French Psychologist Nicolas Guguen Discovered that when a man introduces himself to a woman, and follows that introduction with a touch to her arm, she is more likely to respond to him in a positive manner. On street approaches, where guys asked for women's numbers, to get coffee later, without touching it was 10%, with touching it was 20%, a full 100% increase, in club scenarios it went from 40 to 65%. Now, with the system outlied above, you are already increasing your average from 10% to 35 to 40% just by process of elimination. This is a great way to turn that 35 to 40% into 60 to 80%, which has been my experience. Each introduction, I touch the girl on the shoulder when I shake her hand, and hold the handshake for a few seconds while looking in her eye and talking about anything (not too long, but long enough that I'm fully getting her attention, this is a great way to know whether or not you're going to get the other IOI's, perfect time to look for the two most important, feet position, and pupil dilation.

5. Get Out, Unless You Want More: This is for clubs, Bars, Lounges, and other venues where one night stands are possible. Unlike Mystery Method or so many PUA's who have you move the person from one location to the next, or things like that. If you're just planning to get a number to get a date, you'll have less flakes if you have properly recognized the IOI's, you didn't use many or any pick-up routines, and thus displayed genuine interest (the problem with pick-up routines in causing flakes is that a woman gets taken off her feet and for the moment thinks that giving her number is a wonderful idea, because she likes how you make her feel at that moment, but, when she sobers up, and she's away from your presence, that feeling fades), with the approach outlined above, you have met subconscious criterias by your appearance, and by very basic communication, that she just wants to see how many other characteristics you may meet. of the 60 numbers I got from 150 approaches, and 76 phone numbers suggestions (get to that in a minute), only 5 didn't respond back to my texts. That's an 8% flake rate. The only time your communications should last longer than 5 minutes is for an insta date or a possible ONS, in this case, you increase bodily contact, while suggesting a move from one location to the next. A touching of the lower back as you guide her is a great way of establishing intimacy and dominance. You then evenutally guide her out of the bar/club/lounge, to talkin the fresh air--of course, this can be difficult in the winter, and better to find out if she has favorite movies, or a movie she never seen that you own, or a movie you've never seen that she owns. You want to either get back to her place or yours. Her place guarantees you get laid, but there's always the logistics of driving there.

6. Never ask, Always Suggest. There is a neediness in asking for a girls number or getting out of a bar and going to one's respective place. It's better and easier to just suggest it. "Let's..." "We should really..." "I think we could have a great time..." "There's a/something..." these basic transitionals will easily allow the person to agree.

How this all works. Coming out of a movie theater, saw a girl working the line, no one was in the line, caught her eye, she smiled, I raised a brow, her smile broadened, she looked me down and up, I approached her. We made small talk, I asked her if she liked movies, or if it was really just a job, got her opinion on some movies, and then said, we had a lot in common, and we should hang out, and there was a live band tonight at The Beatnik, "I'm going to this lounge tonight with a live band, you might like it." She offered her number, and I called her. We hung out and I escalated my touching of her, while we listened to music, talked some, and grabbed a bite to eat. I used a series of techniques to lock her interest, and develop intimacy, I talked about a movie, called Kicking and screaming (the Noah Baumbach film), and how sh could really like it, and that she should come back to my place and watch it. She did, we watched it, and I F-Closed her that night.

Great artical. This is something all begainers need to read for sure. Thanks for posting. I love the eye brow opener. lol

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Great post. Thank you.

Very insightful post, thanks for sharing!

well done sir. I take my hat off to you

I like

Dope, I especially like how you force IOI's with your eyebrows. I gotta start working that.

I like way of straight up genuine pick-up. Props

great post... a few things though

guys in order to achieve the success rate of the OP if it really is an 8% flake rate is to go out and calibrate. your flake rate is going to start very high, unitl you start noticing the signs and can eventually learn how to read them. i know many guys are afraid of failure and would praise this post, which im not saying its a bad post, it has VERY useful techniques especially about the sales part, but the only to lower your flake rate is to go out and calibrite

but overall great post!!

You make a great point and something I wanted to get to, but I felt the post had gotten too long as it was. One, the women I approached were in areas that I shine in (so I was able to already hold her attention with actual interest), most places consisted of bookstores, cafe's, art museums, college libraries, campuses and more, now these will be different for everyone.

Two, it is in the calibration, completely. I'm a master practitioner of NLP and actually run my own practice, I'm quite adroit in my ability to read people, to understand their current state of mind. Also, I was the top salesman for eight months, in 3 to 5 minutes, I can move a conversation to what she values, and what her criterias are, so that I can tell if I meet any of those things in her conscious mind. Though I could link them to myself (as Ross Jeffries and Vince Kelvin teach), and used to in the old days, now, I just want to know what she's looking for, and if there is something I sincerely have in common, I don't need any trickery, or anything, because I am that person, and that genuine nature of it, I've found, at least this month, has really upped the overall game--though had I used anchoring, linguistic bridges, double binds, and value connectors, I would've probably gotten more numbers and more lays, I wanted to truly appreciate the women I was with and have them truly appreciate me for just me, something due to low self-esteem for a lot of my life, I wasn't able to do.

I've discovered. When you stop trying to be a pick up artist and start becoming a lover of women and truly start appreciating yourself as a person for whom someone would be lucky to have in their life, you don't need the trickery, you don't need the pick-up lines, you're going to approach women, and with the basic stuff I wrote in the first post, you'll have a fair clue that you meet some characteristics of attraction. You're going to know if you meet unconscious criterias, and you're going to know if you meet conscious criterias, because she'll tell you.

I had one girl in a mall run her hand through my hair and tell me, "I really like curly hair, my last boyfriend had curly hair too!" We've hooked up twice, and we have another date on Thursday, and I've been honest with her that I'm not monagamist, and she shouldn't feel the need to be either. I've told other women up front that and they've ended it there after sharing a night together.

Raiden, never feel like you are bothering us with your posts.

If you need to write a 52 page book on this forum to get your point across, do it, the more, the better in my opinion.

I really have to give you a slow clap for this one. To the untrained eye, this post may seem like a rehash, but in actuality, this post is one of the best I've ever read on this forum.

There is so much unique material in your one post, it's not even funny. You just gave me like 6 different ideas to try out the next time I'm out.

The great thing about your "method" is it seems to completely bypass the fear of approaching that many newbies have. It seems every method these days is a numbers game, which is painful for people scared of social situations, but this is quite different and quite frankly, revolutionary. I can't wait to test this out, and see how it goes.

You say you are good at NLP, are there any NLP "techniques" you always use in all your seductions? If so, can you explain what it is, and how to do it?

I wholeheartedly agree.

it seems that- like a down to business hooker goes "cash or credit?*"- he says "cofee, tea or me?" and scores.



*just made that up.got no idea.never tried hookers

Thank you for your compliments. Hopefully I'll never go off on a 52 page tangent, but should I, I'll know I at least have one reader. Thank you for calling it a method, versus a system. I don't believe in creating systems, they're rigid and miss out on great opportunities, I believe in methods, techniques for which can be adapted to any situation and used.

So, you asked about NLP methods that I use. In my initial approach I use only one. It's not really an NLP approach, it's a very simple technique, the moment you get her feet pointing to you, or any of the other three IOI's, you ask her a question, touch her arm, and look at the bridge of her nose. This will create tunnel vision, the whole world will fade away, and she'll be completely focused on you. It's a very quick way to create the pupil dilation and it invokes the very sincere interest that she wants to feel from a guy.

I believe, now, I state this emphatically, I BELIEVE, I have not tested it yet, I've been testing it now, and have gotten two flakes of the 15 numbers I've gotten this week. I get her talking about her, and then, I start relaying some similar story of some sort, and bring it to the peak, and then actually use the time restraint I put on myself, and tell her I have to go. I write novels for a hobby and a passion, and I've started truly to try and live my life in the past year, so I've got some fun stories, and I know how to tell them... (that's my personal strategy). The ten women I did the cliff hanger on responded back--six asking for the end of the story. The 5 I didn't, two have flaked on me and haven't responded to my text. So, I think there might be something to this. I'll keep people posted on the results if their interested.

One other simple NLP technique I use--the reason I text message my first correspondence with a woman--is I use her Trance words in my first message, thus, the words she leaned on the most while talking. One girl I was talking about movies, and she said, "I thought Drive was GREAT, REALLY GREAT, I 'mean, REALLY REALLY GREAT!" So when I text her, I'd say, "Hey this is.... I thought it was Really Great talking to u. Tell me, what other movies do you think are GREAT!" By utilizing her trance words, I make her feel like I have an undestanding of her world, and by bringing back up the conversation, I remind of her the closeness we felt at that moment and time.

Those are the basic techniques. There are some fun things that I found in this video that gave a somewhat visual interpretation of several of the things I do, Deception With Keith Barry,

http://www.videobb.com/watch_video.php?v=ual46adMsXy6

Great post.

Would this be correct?

1. Eye contact. Smile.
2. Eyebrow raise, watch for copycat.
3. She checks your bod.

Blah, blah, blah . .

4. Get number and scram or stick around, kino and escalate.

*Pay attention for IOI's and suggest instead of ask.

Im actually gonna take my time to say: These are KEY concepts! Excellent job Raiden2k2!
Honestly, i was getting chills as i was reading it and i was telling myself "finally someone who shares the same concepts successfully!".
I make alot of analogies with marketing material as well. If there is something i dont get tired of stressing is "sell to people only interested in buying" and "ever ask, always suggest". Im gonna add a couple marketing concepts (im not a marketing major, so i dont know the right jargon, but i believe you will understand)

1- The higher the commitment required from the buyer, the less likely he will be to buy the product. Meaning, If you suggestto go with a girl for A: coffee, or for a walk, or for icecream, grab a bite, or something else SIMPLE, she will be way more likely to accept than if you suggest to B: go to a nightclub, or for dinner, or even to see a show. Compare the investment made on options A and B in terms of time, money, logistics, confort etc. On any of options A, she wont invest much time (maybe 1hr), neither money (maybe $5), she wont have to dress up, or cancel plans, or rearrange her schedule, or give any explanations to her best friends about what she is doing. On options B, she will have to dress up, its probably something at the end of the day when she might be tired, all her friends are free, she might have to cancel plans or make up excuses for her friends (cause she WONT tell every1 she is going on a "date" with a guy she just met), etc.

2- Word of mouth is an advertising technique that is very powerful because you are not getting anything in exchange for the advertizing, and you are putting your trust on the line by recommending a product to a friend. ALSO, if a product is good, you might tell 3 friends, BUT if the product is BAD, you will tell 9 friends! My point is this: AVOID REJECTION!!! Just like Raiden2k2 said, SO, dont just shoot for the #close, k-close or f-close if its not there for you to take! If you fail, if you get rejected, GIRLS WILL LET HER FRIENDS KNOW and vice versa. The difference is, if a girl rejects you, she WILL be proud of reject a "looser" and she will tell the story to all her friends! It even looks like rejecting boosts a girls ego, while with guys, what boosts our ego is to close successfully! IF she falls for your game and gives you her phone number or w.e, she will NOT tell all her friends, only the close ones, cause she liked you and she doesnt show that to all the girls. BELIEVE ME, I KNOW THIS! Besides, if you take the right steps and quit while you are ahead, as soon as you leave a good impression, she will have no problem introducing you to her friends, and BELIVE ME, there is not better wing than a girl, and there is no better advertizing than when a girl tells her friends you are cool! Girls will help you getting laid. Do you think that your guy friends know more girls than one of her female friends? HELLZZZ NOOOO... Girls know more girls! BESIDES, have a girl tell your target that you are the shit, and have one of your boys tell your target the same thing, and you will see who see is gonna listen!

ONCE AGAIN, HI5 to Raiden2k2... great article!

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Im not a player... im a winner!

Great post Raiden. I love the way you've got stats for it too.

You've obviously thought about this a lot, so I'd be interested to know a few more details about the "pre-approach" IOIs, mainly the extended eye contact.

Thinking about all the times you've got that first IOI you talk about (the extended eye contact), what % (roughly) would you say you were looking at the girl first and then she met your eyes vs she was looking at you first?

I'm also interested in how you look around and for how long, eg. Do you spend much time looking around? Do you scan the room quickly? Do you lock your eyes on a girl until she looks at you? Are you good at detecting if a girl is looking your way?

I'd be really interested to hear your thoughts on this, because I don't get much eye contact and I don't understand why. I'd say on an average night, I probably get about 1 or 2 (at best) extended eye contacts like you described, along with a handful of eye contacts where a girl takes a quick look/looks away immediately. The rest of the time, it's like I'm invisible.

I think I'm a fairly decent looking guy - I get complimented on my looks by girls pretty regularly. I dress well, am in good shape, work on my body language, etc. so really I *should* be attracting more eye contact than I actually get. Maybe it's something I'm doing wrong re: the questions I asked above.

Anyway, thanks for a great thread, and I'd love to hear more about this!