Thanks for all good advice you gave. I only read some method parts of the NLP and used it. It is like therapy and I feel it works. I cannot read anymore theories..

Yesterday I used my social circle and got a date. I used NLP to imagine first. I was comfortable and confident in a certain level. I just make my offer and look at her confidently. That's it.

I already give up Neg, DHV, IOI system, push pull, etc.

Thanks! I read 60s by the recommendation of Chief. I read NLP from Slywalker. I will read what you recommend, but now I just feel I am fxxxed up by so many theories. I need some time...

Take that time - and see what fits your personality.

Then start again. Always embrace what you think you will truly benefit from, and shitcan the rest. Information overload sucks on many levels - don't let it fuck you up in something that's supposed to be fun!

Best,


RR

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Women are like ceramic tile.... if you do the prep work, and lay them properly the first time...you can walk all over them for years to come.

60 yoc/ minimal game is kind of the same, good choice...It will not be different theories, imo move more towards natural game vin di carlo, 60 yoc, aaron sleazy... those are all good choices, get away from the crap, like nlp... The reason i recommended minimal game is because is designed for people in your situation about to give up on the community, but 60 yoc is the best material out there very similar to what i been doing all my life as a natural...

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Learn the proper way to maximize your results in a dancefloor/club environment, check out my blog and youtube channel:
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I almost gave up PU also. I mean by no means do I consider myself a PUA yet, but I do see improvement in my game with woman it just feels like its happening so slowly and I still haven't been satisfied. Often I feel fed up cause I read a lot but I still find myself not being social enough in party environments and being out gamed by the amogs, I always say maybe PU isn't really for me.

I'm currently reading 60 years and Its some best material I've read, minimal game is really what I need right now

To those who 'gave up' or are close to 'giving up' . . . what is it exactly that you are giving up? In order to give something up, you have to first have it.

1. The simple act of starting up a conversation with a stranger and then following through to a relationship will be difficult for most and an impossibility for many.

2. But if you don't even give it a shot, how will you know?

3. Reading some material and then trying it out on a few girls doesn't exactly equal 'giving it a shot'.

Well, it is like anything really. People want a quick fix with no effort. Pick up can get you to where you want to go a lot more quickly than doing it on your own, but once people find out that you have to put the work in and go outside your comfort zone they put it down. You lose 80% right there.

Then you get guys who jump into it without taking the time to find the system that is the best fit for the natural abilities they already have. So they either get frustrated or decide it is too much work to change completely. Or you get the guys who don’t make a lot of progress and keep looking for the magic bullets. You know the guys who post a lot of easy questions on forums that they should have had a handle on months or years ago. The same guys who will know all the theory and tell you what you’re doing wrong, but can’t open, have a conversation, or close.

Of course the “pick up community” is partially to blame with its shortsighted tactics to make sales without necessarily taking the time to think about the responsibility of building something that will last. The biggest problem was not realizing how labor intensive the boot camps were from an instructor’s point of view. And how limited they are in terms of following up with the guys who take them. Three grand is a whole lot of money to shell out for a guy to have a good couple of days only to return to old habits down the road. How does that make the instructors look? At minimum before anyone is allowed to even take a boot camp an assessment should be done to see where the person is at from a skills point of view and if they will be able to learn. Then after the camp there should be a window a certain number of months to make sure the skills are being applied.

Pick up is still evolving. At the moment they have moved on from routines and indirect to a more natural and direct style. The problem is they themselves are learning about the direct style as they go along and as such everyone has been left with a number games approach. I call it Nigerian game or salesman game. This is because it reminds me of those happy-go-lucky Nigerians you see out at the club with no approach anxiety, but little game. They luck into pussy based on the willingness to put it out there.

I’d imagine this salesman style game came about because of the rising number of people out there who teach pickup. So, all the time they have had to spend coming up with ways to sell their systems led them to study marketing techniques (most of which have to do with a numbers approach and a 3% to 10% success rate). Before it was a lot less competitive and the focus was on getting the hot girl at the club to go home with you when you have had little success in the past.

So, now you figure your down too less than 10% of guys who stuck with it and are getting better. But new problems start popping up. Usually the sort of problems that pickup doesn’t typically address. So, these guys become less visible because the forums and pickup material no longer offer anything useful (or no way to sort out the useful from that which isn’t useful). A lot of these guys also find a long-term girlfriend that fills their wants and needs and stop going out for a while. Some guys become disillusioned with their inability to find a woman that lives up to what they want and say they are through with pickup (even though they have internalized much of what they have learned).
It is a boom and bust cycle much like other industries and subcultures. The Internet was in the public eye back in the late nineties and then it collapsed. Now it is as popular as ever with ebay, social networking, and the like. It is the same thing with pickup. It peaked with The Game and now it is going through a reformation as it distances itself from the term pick up artist.

In the future I see the trend of certain types of game becoming popular for a year or a few years at a time as it is an industry now and people are hungry for a constant supply of new material. For example location game, like I’ve already touched on, is likely to become popular. That’s to say the location is the most important factor like the guy who gets a job being the building repairman for an apartment building full of divorced women. In which case the pickup style becomes more AFCish and sensitive/understanding. Might not be top quality across the board, but suddenly a guy who was getting 5-6 women a year from cold approach, and maybe 10-15 from social circles, is now getting more than he can handle.

I also see the more new wave gurus getting into experience game. An example of experience game would be putting yourself in certain situations or joining subcultures to better understand worlds outside of your own and then applying as an insider to make it so you only need barebones in pickup with a foundation in the chosen subculture.

So, to answer your question I’d say 80% stop. 10% stop and start and 10% become less visible, but are actively into pickup. Personally I’m at a crossroads. I’ve been thinking about writing a second book to fix some of the things in direct game that aren’t being addressed by what’s out there, but on the other hand I feel that if I do it will be just one more step towards officially becoming part of this pua instructors circle. I’m not sure that’s a direction I’m interested in pursuing.

I have a lot of my own questions. I feel the world is headed for a more transient lifestyle where your best friend is someone you’ve only known for five years and you have several compartmentalized groups of friends based around the activity you’re engaged in doing (one group for drinking, one for movies, a group for going to the gym, etc. with little crossover).

I feel marriage is becoming important for the purpose of giving children stability they need growing up and not for any of the old reasons to get married. I’m growing more interested in comfortable situations involving friends with benefits and less interested in ONS or club/bar pulls. I’ve been there, done that. At this point it has to be more than sex with hot women, but at the same time I’m not in any sort of rush to have a proper relationship or to settle down. Some days I have a shit day and come off like a total AFC other days I’m better than anything I’ve watched in pua guru videos.

The bottom line is to strive to be better than you were the day before and to be comfortable in your own skin.

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Hi, I'm A. Fahren and I'm an author. I love to travel, socialize, and am hopelessly addicted to movies. That's about it.

That's true! Thanks! It helped my mind set!

Very nice.

Alright; my story about pick-up?
I was being AFC and somehow (can't remember how) i stumbled upon a pop-up about the book: Mark Raymond: Magical Tactics. It was a pop-up with some explanation about his book, what he has written in it and stuff like that. ( I was like 16 years old then?, now i'm 18. I THOUGHT I'D HIT THE JACKPOT/MAGICAL BULLET

I started to use the lines and techniques in the book, like negging for instance. Outcome? Girls would look strange at me, like: wtf is this guy doing? And by that i mean a BAD thing, not a good thing.

So 2 years later i read The Game by Neil Strauss. Got into this forum and what did i want?: 'To find that magical bullet, because i thought i could easily become a PUA, as long as i read enough theory'. I gave advise to fellow people even though I HAD NEVER EVEN TESTED IT! I'm so ashamed of that. And because of my 0 success i gave up.

Then i haven't been on the forum for 6 months, thought that i was AFC forever. I just didn't put work in it, stayed in my comfort zone the whole time.

Recently got back here, searching for my mistakes. What was wrong about my earlier mindset? Why didn't i improve, even though posting a lot, reading a lot?
Answer: Not practicing at all!

It's exactly what YouWish99 wrote.

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LOL. I think many people learning pu have this situation. I have as well. Now I read 60 years of challenge and watched some guru's videos. I just realized that many gurus have high rate of rejection (you can watch Sasha and simple pickup, especially the ABC news of simple pickup on youtube). It is not mystery's mind set 5 for 5, 100% success. Besides the arts, skills or theory of pick up, it is just a journey to find cool and cute girls who also like me. Number game!

Now I can still only approach one or two strangers every week and I am using my social opportunity to meet some girls. I think approaching strangers are much more clean. After approach and talk, I can see if I like her or not and if she likes me. I can just walk away.

For my chances in social circle, it is not a big circle and I have to endure the time I don't like, but I have gotten many opportunities to meet girls and have much more time and chances to spend time with them and screen them. After spending time with them, it also makes me easy to make approach.

I think I should meet strangers more and still keep the social circle of girls.

After these several months, one thing I realize is that ugly girls are not cool. They usually show me blank, harsh, cold and mean and avoid eye contact.


Beautiful girls, however, usually smile, look at my eyes and are very cool.


I think besides the factor of indicator of interest, it has something to do with self-esteem.

I remember 4 years ago, one beautiful girl showed me one region of the city, ate with me (I paid checks). And after 1 year, she ate with me again (she paid). She also made offer that we should eat again. I just assume that she is nice to everyone, not because she likes me, and avoid her. Now I realize that she is a cool person that I should at least keep in contact with.

It also happened two years ago and some months before. My low self-esteem hurts me.

After learning MM, I not only developed a mind set that I should do all these things, or I cannot get girls, I also developed a mind set that I am a totally AFC who are absolutely bad with girls. I think the direct game and other theories have addressed first side effect. However, the second side effect still exists in this community. Maybe it is marketing. Making guys realize they are bad can lead them to buy the stuff and attend workshops, but it hurts a lot to the self-esteem and confidence.

If I do not love myself, what I show is not shy, is not just lack of confidence, it is cold, mean and avoiding. It happens to ugly girls as well. Just some random thoughts. LOL

If you don't love yourself, how can you expect someone else to do it

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The Learning Journal:
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"Pick up arts" are analogous to "training wheels".

Some people need them for a short duration of time, some for years. They just help you with the various factors that you require to develop within yourself physically, mentally and emotionally to succeed at the task at hand, i.e. "riding the bike".

Eventually, after some point of time, you will stop using them because they are no longer indispensable.

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" You're born alone and you die alone and this world just drops a bunch of rules on top of you to make you forget those facts. But I never forget. I'm living like there's no tomorrow, because there isn't one. "