Hello,

Its been two months of dating and we defined the relationship - mutually(it wasn't just me who jumped in with the idea). The girl is 18y old. And this short time spent together was good, so maybe there is potential for LTR ahead.

I used some game rules, and despite the fact that I'm starting to like her very fast, I don't want to rush into showing it, and I go with steady tempo. So I don't appear needy, but neither does she. This is when we are not together, otherwise we already got to the comfort and connection stage, no problem with this matter..

Except...

Most important info: this would be her first relationship, whereas I had many. So it was obvious to me from the start that she lacks experience. No big deal. BUT. Few times, we escalated to the point of leaving only pants on, and she would refuse further. So it would seem she lacked any sexual experience as well.

Last time some questions were raised naturally, I rather let her start. Some questions out of curiosity and so on... For the 'experience' part, she finally reveals that there was ONE TIME. I wasn't said directly, but conclusion is obvious - she lost virginity on a one-night-stand.

So I thought, ok, but afterwards it hit me.. So if I understood well...Well, I did: The ONS. The ONS as first experience.

On that second thought, I can't get rid of this thinking. I am thinking about letting go of her, and saying nothing nor preparing her.

Too bad this girl is intelligent, mannered, not generally slutty, however...
I will only say, don't know how it happened but if she was ready to gain first quick experience in this way, and I have to wait because she shows LMR for what the fuck ever reason - then fuck it, that guy had an ALPHA POSITION, got it all, while my position now is BETA. And as her sequence was: ONS > 1st relationship > the chances are she will fuck it all up here.

Also, I'm afraid to ask her if they used protection, if this really was a full-blown ONS. If she implies a 'NO' answer, then I even got potential STD in this story. Fuck, I don't know where to proceed with her, or just leave and risk regret... Option of bringing all this up in conversation with her is a bit complicated as you may guess.

I don't know. What do you think?

If you like her bring it up. What's the worst thats going to happen. she breaks up with you? you are already thinking of breaking up with her. I say talk about it if you want her and protect yourself. If you don't really want her drop her.
It is what ever you really want. But I heard a lot of positives as your writing that out. I would try to turn her into a ltr. That is if she is clean.

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Any questions feel free to PM me.

(\/)aven

Good god youre over thinking this one bro... Youre worried about a ONS or an STD? Lacks focus man...

Stop ruining something good with all these what ifs from the past... trust me, youve slept with a bigger whore or will someday soon. Lots of girls want to be like their friends and lose there virginity just one night and its usually an awful experience that kinda ruins them until they meet a gentleman that shows them otherwise. Then they calm down and make great lovers.

Youre young and should be focusing on fun and growing as a man.

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My personal mantra:

"Every woman's a whore in the right situation"
"They're all selling it for something"
"She's sluttier than you think she is"

This post really makes me angry.. This is exactly why women lie about their sexual history. This girl is being honest about herself and you are being a judgmental *%$# about it. What kind of message are you sending to this girl? "Lie to guys because they are too insecure to handle the truth."

/SLUT SHAMING IS HATRED OF MEN.

There's nothing wrong with having sex. It doesn't matter if you are a man or a woman. Everybody likes sex. Internalize that thought. Sex is awesome. Having sexual experience is awesome. Don't let your madonna/whore complex keep you from a good thing. Having a one night stand isn't a read flag and this girl has not done anything to earn a hard next.

Learn how to deal with LMR. Encourage her to talk about her fantasies and open up sexually. It's OKAY for somebody who's inexperienced to want to wait awhile before having sex. You don't even know the details of her alleged one night stand, so don't jump to conclusions. For all you know she was coerced her first time or drunk or just regretted it. Maybe she WANTED the relationship and the guy just had sex with her and never called her again. How about you give her the benefit of the doubt and reward her for being honest with you.

-Wolf

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Screening: drama-free-relationships-1-screening-vt124827.html
Bad Behavior: drama-free-relationships-3-the-soft-next-vt125554.html

You can also say that I am bragging with double standards as I had more partners including one ONS and one FF. But before, let me explain it, as I know my own psyche and principles related to basic human nature. I am not a skillfull PUA, but I'm not ignorant either.

Case 1: If any potential GF had any kind of relationship experience prior to ONS when single, would be fine for me.
Case 2: If she had lots of relationships, I would absolutely have no problem at all. All my ex-girlfriends were like this.
Case 3: If she had extremely large number of anything (taking age in account, for example she's 20 and had 15+ partners), I'd send her where Sun doesn't shine. Same with lots of, numerous ONS practices.

But loosing virginity on ONS, this is my current Case 4 candidate, and I somehow don't like this. For all I know it falls into category of ONS, now imagine this: I ask her if they used protection, she says:
1) "no." - then I would wish I've never met her.
2) "yes" - she lies about it.
3) "no condom". "condoms". "and blindfolded". "and double anal".

I don't want to talk about things like that in beginning of supposed RS. I don't even feel the need to share my own history.
Also, bear in mind that I would be her first RS experience. She maybe doesn't know how to handle it, and I am taking a high risk with this. And she did it once, she can do it again. My insecurities, yes, but so what, even classic jealousy is default human nature.

You see, I know this is a PICK-UP artists forum, but not all of us have same standards when it comes to sex. Like Wolfwoodd said, it should be like drinking wine or eating cheeseburger. Well, by my standards in the fields of relationships, NO. It must not be. If you think of it like drinking water, then you are not a relationship material, period. Nothing wrong with that per se, but I wouldn't want to gamble and make a commitment with porn star or prostitute. Sex can be exclusive, you can experiment at one point, and instead choose to hold it exclusive, because that's also up to your individual nature. IF A GIRL STARTS TO TAKE SEX AS A HARMLESS FUN, then why not give her chance to go out and fuck whoever she wants in LTR?
I understand your point, but then they might want to be like their friends and go out to cheat in a ganbang, yeah, because the rest of the world does it, awful or not. I might go outside and shoot people randomly because, yeah, because that Anton Chigurh and those like him are so cool.

THE POINT:
Major problem I am having, is that she could offer her fucking virginity to an X random guy, but I have to wait, and my time is running out. For all I know, she might just want to experience for the first time a dating/RS/cuddle bitch me, and find me sexually unattractive. At the end of the day, I would be fucked up/doomed. And I was before, and I don't want to experience that ever again. But at least they didn't make the big deal out of sex with me. As someone pointed out it shouldn't be.

I am just sayin', it seems like women fuck with guy if they find him attractive, it doesn't matter if they are virgins, nervous, on 1st date, anything, if they fall for him. But if she was few times "in control" that she resisted with me, then the simple truth is I don't make it for her. If she could control herself with me, and not with some random guy in delicate stage of virginity, then it makes me wonder... Does it make you?

I don't want to get burned, does someone understand that realistic feeling?

Also, if I'm allowed to quote from other topic in this context:
interesting. I also prefer polyamory, that is the point. But I wouldn't consider any sex a relationship, like quick ONS. Or if you look it that way, then I don't have any kind of relationship with this girl, unless sex happens. But then again, if she hasn't practically demonstrated irresistible lust after me yet, then she could better be with that ONS guy, for it was more valuable 'relationship', and I am wasting my time.

Both. Now that I've explained it all better in latest posts. But despite her appearing intelligent, if there was no protection then she is capable of acting beyond stupid, and the whole thing would become a problem out of proportions.

I would like to ask you to think about something: suppose you lost your virginity with a whore/prostitute, or gone there just for recreation. You open your mind and say that to a serious girlfriend. How do you imagine she would react or think of you? How is experiencing first intercourse randomly on a lust rampage different than buying prostitute? Who would expect anything more substantial than kinky sex with a random person in another city, probably aware that its only once? Its the same deal.

And that phrase "past is past" is fallacy, past defines you, especially when you encounter some significant life experience for the first time.

Also, that dogma that jealousy is completely misplaced. Why is it good to say that you're not jealous? Isn't exactly that against hardwired natural impulses? "I'm not a jealous person, but I want to just ask you this..", the FUCK you are not. Why not saying you are so we can define some borders, otherwise what is the point of going exclusive and stop hooking with others? - this is precisely eliminating jealousy by showing where is the limit, except if you are a cuckold.

A ONS doesn't necessarily mean she's a slut or bad girl. A guy could have led her on and just slept with her and moved on. Some girls get so tired of being virgins that they choose to lose it on a ONS so it's not a big deal and they don't become one of those virgin clingers. Heck, some girls get forced by a guy to do it.
I agree, someone's past shouldn't be dismissed. But there are many explanations for why she lost her virginity to a ONS. I understand how you have standards for your relationships, I do too and watch out for warning signs. Even if it were a ONS with no condom, what does that mean?
Regardless, I believe your assumptions based off her ONS virginity issue are silly and I don't agree with them. But they're YOUR beliefs. If your this uncomfortable then leave her and move on. Better that then you're miserable and thinking crazy things in a relationship.

And the prostitute thing...think of it like this. If I were a girl and my bf told me he lost it to a prostitute, what would I know about him from that? He could've been forced by his friends. His dad could have gotten one for him and told him to do her to be a man. He could have been so tired of being a virgin that he was frustrated one night and paid for it. One of my best friends lost his virginity to a prostitute. How'd it happen? We're hanging out one night and a mutual friend brought a friend with his "gf" over. We're hanging at the house making jokes and our mutual friend's friend asks if him and his girl could use the bathroom. We figure they're a close couple who can pee in the same room we say ok. They come out 10 mins later naked and start having sex in front of the 3 of us. Then the mutual friend starts having sex with her. Turns out she's a prostitute. My virgin friend was so turned on he said fuck it and paid. Didn't mean he was a sex freak, in fact he's been in a relationship since and genuinely doesn't want other girls.

So I've been reading through this thread and got to this , and stopped:
Out of personal boredom I will probably read the rest of it later on , but I'll tell you here and now:

You are afraid of success. There's a simple dynamics with risks. The higher they are , the higher the reward.


Also , the past is just that , past. What's done is done. And although observing the past is a decent way to establishing a pattern , most people fail to acknowledge the most essential factor of their would-be assessment:

That "pattern" was established BEFORE she met you. You are just NOW entering this equation.
That doesn't mean you have to change her , that would be stupid. It means that her life has a new factor of influence. Her pattern , her orbit will be influenced by your gravitational pull , if you're brave enough to express it.

Fear will turn you into a weakling.


.

It defines who you WERE , not who you ARE. Who you ARE is constantly changing with every second that goes by. Judging on someone's past is nothing more than a speculation.People are way to complex to be accurately labeled so easily.

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At first I thought you were just over zealous but after your rants Its clear you are intelligent and have thought this one thru...the problem is that smart people can over analyze things and justify it in their heads. I have to agree that youve set this standard so high that youre are afraid of success. Im guessing youre young so you are missing the point of the few here that have life experiences. My point is that this standard is ridiculous and you will agree sometime in the future.

I also totally agree with wolfwoodd... youre setting a bad example to this woman. If thats not what youve convinced yourself is for you then move on and start searching thru churches for that special woman. But dont make someone feel terrible about her benign past.

_________________
My personal mantra:

"Every woman's a whore in the right situation"
"They're all selling it for something"
"She's sluttier than you think she is"

So then just say it: you're jealous, some other dude had sex with her and you haven't. Stop pretending that it's some deep-seated issue with girls who have one-night stands before relationships, because there really is no evidence pointing to that whatsoever.

Since the jealousy is your problem, you must choose the solution. I see only two options though:
1. Stop being jealous, have a healthy and long-lasting relationship with cute girl.
2. Stay jealous, dump cute girl, only date virgins in future.

Whatever you prefer.

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One of the most useful things you will ever learn about body language.

Some good points were made by all of you.

But lets talk about something else, because this has been mostly ignored.

I've searched some older topics on web, and it would seem that experiences similar to mine are rare.

I found a reply to someone else's similar situation from a guy who claimed to be involved in PUA, here:

"She's using you for something. Either it be money, or finances, or simply to have a house over her head so she can see other people behind your back, idk! ALL I KNOW is that she's using you. Once a girl has sex, she loves the sex. If she doesnt see you like that, she NEVER WILL, and she'll end up "getting hers" from somewhere else. Then, when you eventually catch her in the act, she will blame YOU for it, spouting off made-up reasons why you didnt satisfy her, or didnt make her feel special enough to wanna see you, or it "just happened" with the other guy, etc.

Don't put yourself through that sh*t! Examine yourself and your personality and your appearance. Do you have alot of friends? Do you have a good, outgoing, fun, exciting personality? Do you have a good body and good looks, at least to the extent you can improve? If you answered NO to any of those questions, than you need to fix it!

And in the meantime, DUMP THIS GIRL IMMEDIATELY. I can never be more serious in my entire life. If you dont, your entire future is f*cked down the drain my dude.

Sure, girls are making excuses right on here for this sort of thing. But when it comes down to the rock solid truth? She simply isnt excited enough by you sexually, to wanna do it. And its too late to change anything now, even by fixing the checklist of the 3 key points i told you.

But if you do everything I said, those 3 points, then youll deff have much better luck with girls in the future! Remember, girls decide in the first few seconds and the first few minutes how they feel aobut you sexually. trust me man its proven"

Do you think he has a point?

(BTW I didn't feel that she completely lacks desire, but she simply wouldn't go further(when it remains to take pants off) from something that can be labelled as fore-play, at that point she appears nervous or is maybe something else, and that is why I suspected on STD - sounds paranoid but you know what - 'one shit never comes alone', somehow things always continue to surprise me)

Also, the thing about escalation, its not only me who initiates everything, she does as well, or follows, but to certain extent as already mentioned. So, do you suggest that I reject her next time, thus giving her signals that I don't want to play this game to the edge of control only for her to stop there? Or, do I keep going with small steps every time? But that one is the most tricky to me - the high and then the low.

Or, do I let her enter into comfort and then bring conversation in a non-assertive tone?
Or maybe something she would last expect from me, which resembles a higher value? (here I may come as assertive).

Something else?

But those last two, or if I make a wrong move, could bring first drama or even call for 'silent demons' at the very beginning of RS.

I am a bit lost in this process, I've proven to myself with every individual case that there is nothing even close to unique PUA pattern in a long-term. Sometimes it appears there can be a 'honeymoon' period without sex, sometimes its generally accepted that without sex there can be no real connection, sometimes there are too subtle details between the two, and so on.

Sexual tone and hints in texting for example, like before we meet and so, is not an option. I myself don't feel comfortable and natural with talking mundane in letters or phone, and would feel stupid. When we don't see each other and talk, we prefer discussing different things, but everything has its place, and outermost intimacies work best with direct approach for me.