Not sure who brought up sales, but I've worked in sales, and I realize that this may be part of why I feel cold approaches are not so bad. We were taught to introduce ourselves right away. I would think: what if they're just here to browse? One of my managers told me maybe they are, but maybe they didn't realize there was a product they really needed until you showed them. Another thing I feel translates to PU is "never guess what's in a person's pocket." In regards to PU, that would mean not to assume she has a boyfriend or not interested in meeting someone new.

@Cliff - Again, I also struggle with PU, but I am taking baby steps. I would suggest the same for you. Don't ever look at getting shot down as a step back. You never lose because you learn from it. What's holding your energy back is your inner game. You take it to heart. As southern gentleman said, you need to just enjoy what you're doing. I feel I have evolved quite a bit and it's starting to really feel like a game now. I am feeling comfortable with my openers (nothing canned), so I now feel better prepared for my encounters. I start to think "I know what she's going to say" and when I'm right, in my head I'm like "HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Also, if you don't want to come off as a creeper, don't go for the kill right now. Start with basic conversation, but make sure you have something of substance to say. Kind of how I used to pick up girls in school. I asked for a pencil. It wasn't even a pick-up line. I genuinely needed a pencil, but after that, we started talking. Bottom line is: look at it like weight-lifting. You don't go for the heaviest set of weights right away, right?

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"You ain't accustomed of going through customs. You ain't been nowhere, huh?"

This is exactly right. The poster asked how long it would take to fight through to get to the results you want. It is the exact process that Mr. International is laying out that I used when I finally stopped being an AFC pussy and started to approach that led to reading the signs, modifying and realizing that it was ON ME to adapt until I gave the girls in mass what they were looking for when it comes to forming a connection, leading a set, getting the number, kino on first approach and all that.

Same thing happens now:

Maybe it's been a little while since I've approached and I'm feeling rusty; I'm out & about and I "approach" the first girl of the day.

Instead of "approach" I more like to think of it as "I say something" to a girl.

She is feeding back energy that tells me she is not sexually interested. So this first girl helps me to correct myself for the next girl.

The third girl of the day is swooning.

But she would have never swooned to this degree if I hadn't calibrated my game for the day with the first convo or 2. Sometimes a couple of warmup "throw away" "sets" are needed.

Someone in another thread was saying it's like a video game. It kind of is.

rejections can be fun sometimes, as long as you don't come off to creepy, the first time i ever got rejected (just plain rejected, with no excuses) was freshman year in college. i saw a girl that i knew back in high school, i always had a little crush on her and stuff, we used to dance together and just have fun. So i went over to her, The local high school basketball teams had their playoff tournaments there and she was a high school senior so boldy i set right next to her, in the middle of her senior class and just had a conversation with her, i asked her how she was and made her laugh and stuff and i asked for her number, she said "no" (as cliche as it sounds, i've literally never heard the word no from a girl unless it was in a playful way) embarassed i asked could i get her twitter name she said "no" then i said "facebook?" she said "no" then i stood up and in a very playful way i said "well hit me up on myspace", everybody around us just burst out laughing and i walked away

point is, if you get rejected it's apart of the game, i used to play point guard (basketball) in both high school and college, always the shortest on the court at 5'11 and i would get blocked all the time, but i still enjoyed the game and tried over and over again....same thing with girls, you'll never learn how to deal with rejection untill you go for it, it's best to try on 5-7's before you go to 8-10's boost your confidence up, get a couple lays with average chicks and then work your way up to 10's...EVERY basketball player has missed a shot, but the greats are known for their makes, not their misses

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"My understanding of women only goes as far as the pleasure. When it comes to the pain I'm like any other bloke - I don't want to know."-Alfie

Fucking ace dude. You should have seen me in high school. I had a girl that I really fancied say "You aren't half sexy, you know". I replied "I know" which was good enough. Then she kept hanging around me but I was just totally unresponsive. Didn't know what to do or how to do it. Just felt paralysed. Awful really.

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If something's not fun, it's not worth doing

i can totally understand that, Girls don't understand the unbelievable pressure put on us to talk to them, a girl can say literally anything and a boy will still listen or talk to her. but if a guy slip up once it could be over....BUT once you learn what to say, almost any girl can be yours

idk if you're into computers or gaming but look at it like this

what's better buying a 1,500 alien ware computer than looks good but performs decently, or slowly building a computer that out performs everything on the market?

i actually like messing up with girls, getting put in awkward situations, not having anything to say because it forces me to think of how that could have went better....failure is just teaching you how to suceed. and i BET you learned from that situation, even now i bet you're looking back on it wondering what you could have said and stuff and thats good, use that on another girl.....i think im talking to a pro tho so you probably already know all this

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"My understanding of women only goes as far as the pleasure. When it comes to the pain I'm like any other bloke - I don't want to know."-Alfie

Part of the issue is that I'm very hung up on morality, what's the "right" thing to do, never making someone uncomfortable. It's the way I was raised. To prioritise my own needs doesn't come that naturally, so approaching a woman and acting like "listen to me, I'm important" is what's difficult. I find it easier to say "don't worry about me, just pretend I'm not here". The fact that making a few women uncomfortable (without obviously intending to) might result in me having some great sex ought to be an easy equation, but I don't find it that way. It's easier for me to say "I'll avoid inconveniencing anyone or putting them out even if the results might end up being good for me".

So with respect to not being a "pussy AFC" etc, that's not always the issue. It's not true or helpful to tell everyone who doesn't approach that they're just a wimp. There can be an element of that. But I approached women on occasion before I even knew of this community. Of course I have feelings that say "this might hurt if you get rejected" sometimes. But it's more the appraisal of my own value that I struggle with. I've been so conditioned to do things for women as they desire that striking out and saying "I want this from you, how about it?" does not feel easy.

So yeah, I will go with inner game issues.

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If something's not fun, it's not worth doing

oh no i don't think a man who is afraid or doesn't want to talk to a girl is a wimp? not at all, i understand the pressures of havign to say the right thing, the feelign that you might be inconveniencing the girl, the fact that you have to do just about everything right in order to get her, no im sayign it's best to just have fun with the learning process

you don;t have to say "listen to my im important" infact the most charisma books will tell you the opposite, "let me listen to you, we're both important" is the correct thought, knowing that the person is a human being that not only deserves to be heard but deserves to hear your imput......i LOVE making girls feel special, complementing them, making them laugh, etc. it's to your benifit that you enjoy putting other ahead of you, that way you won't be arrogant and actually care about being a good human being that so happens to know how to pick up girls


nothing's wrong with talking to a girl, making her laugh, making her feel special, and maybe giving her amazing sex lol to be that morally thats the best thing to do

and trust me i promise ALOT ALOT ALOT ALOT of girls WANT to be approached by a guy who will genuinely listen and genuinely have a conversation with them....as long as you're genuine (which girls can tell thru body language and stuff) you shouldn't worry that you're making her uncomfortable or annoying her........but thats just how i feel

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"My understanding of women only goes as far as the pleasure. When it comes to the pain I'm like any other bloke - I don't want to know."-Alfie

Cheers man.

Anyway we were debating whether those guys in New York were creeps or losers? Hot topic

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If something's not fun, it's not worth doing

to me yeah some of those guys were creeps, but some of those guys were just not giving a chance by a girl who was trying to prove a point, therefore they looked bad....i guarantee if any of the guys on here (including me) would have approached her, we all would have gotten rejected. but a week before then i bet most of us would have atleast gotten a number

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"My understanding of women only goes as far as the pleasure. When it comes to the pain I'm like any other bloke - I don't want to know."-Alfie

Earlier in the thread when I had stated I was an afc pussy who was afraid to approach it was an appraisal of myself only. I would never believe that a guy who doesn't approach has that attribute or is a wimp or anything at all like that. To me that would be like saying every guy who doesn't get up and go to the gym for an hour every day is a wimp. Billions of guys don't follow that exact plan and whether they are a wimp or not isn't about that stuff.
It can help to try to frame it in your mind that by not approaching you are holding back amazing experiences from these girls. Frame it that it is selfish to NOT approach because you have so much to give away. Shit man, you make her day/week/month/year by giving her the opportunity to show you what she's got.
Dropping the idea that you are making them uncomfortable can also make it easier to approach. When you approach with the idea that you have an amazing gift to share with them that they would LOVE to experience (you), you will go in with a comfortable vibe and you will make them comfortable immediately because of it.

You are never inconveniencing a girl by approaching her.

I am not implying that this is what you had in mind but if some guy was a gamebot and went up doing a bunch of opinion openers or "Excuse me, YOU - stop, you look gorgeous" approaches, I could see where that WOULD make some women uncomfortable but when you have it in your mind that all you're doing is dropping in for a normal convo to see if there is chemistry between the two of you, you can almost never go wrong.

If a guy felt like he was "gaming" then I could see where the notion of making girls uncomfortable would come into play. On the other hand if the guy felt like he was just breezing into some girls' lives to share some of his awesome energy with them, that's a healthy mindframe to have in the 'field' in my opinion.
This 100%.
Boss.

@Cliff - I sort of feel you've been led by some certain group with an agenda to think the way you do. For instance, in the states, we're often hearing about feminist groups don't like this or that, but the media is only pushing the most extreme scenarios which would lead you to believe all women think that way. Certainly, if you look at the wording of it, they wrote it specifically with that intent because if you read between the lines, they never specifically stated that all women feel this way.

I'm not trying to bash feminism. Certainly, everyone should have equal rights, but not everyone wants the same thing. For instance, if you've ever been a supervisor or in a leadership position, you know it's not always a cozy job. Some people have not had such a role, so they envy you and would like to be in your shoes. Other people may say "Forget all that leadership stuff, just pay me and let me know what I have to do."

Now, I'm not saying all women don't want equal rights. I'm saying maybe there are women who do want a man to approach them and tell them how beautiful they are. I can think of many cases where I've felt that a girl was waiting on me to make a move, but I reverted back to a politically correct robot mindset and simply shook their hand because I figured that was the respectful thing to do. Then along comes Cassanova, putting his hands all over her and walking away with the girl.

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"You ain't accustomed of going through customs. You ain't been nowhere, huh?"

im gong to go a little bit deeper, im all over blogs, and social media sites and stuff, i follow 150K people on twitter and have 120K, and i read about alot of stuff, see peoples opinion and get a better understanding on how the world thinks....it seems this new feminist movement has poisoned the views of many women around the world...feminism was about equal rights and being treated equal, but now they are looking for superiority, where they want not only the same rights but more, and they want protection rights.....basically if a man and a woman did the same thing, the woman sentence will almost always be less than the man's.

but nowhere near ALL women think like this, it's just a higher than i would like it to be percentage.....i even noticed a change in the girls i meet, they have this stuck up vibe that every guy wants them, then complain that they're lonely...it's almost a trend just to reject guys no matter how good their game is aka "curving" or calling people "thirsty"....1-5's think they should be treated as 9's or 10's and i would agree if their personality wasn't so horrible....alot of women (nowhere near all) seem to think that just because they're women, we're suppose to treat them like queens...look online, horrible looking women get waaay more messages than average or even attractive guys...so that alone boost their confidence so high that they fee they should be treated better than anybody EVEN if they're personality is horrible

as regards to catcalling, yea some of those guys were doing it wrong, some said the right things, only one really had the guts to walk up to her, none got any results....i know alot of girls that walk around in revealing clothes JUST FOR ATTENTION, you have to realize when this is going on, these girls have NO intention of giving a number away and might go home with the most attractive guy they find but to the regular guys she's literally not paying them any attention. they do it just to feel better about themselves, most are truly insecure as soon as the compliments stop, as the girl in the video is probably very insecure

but that's just what i picked up and learned from reading alot online lol maybe realife is difference although have seen a difference in the women around me

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"My understanding of women only goes as far as the pleasure. When it comes to the pain I'm like any other bloke - I don't want to know."-Alfie

If you read Heartsie, the state of modern American women seems completely dystopian. There is certainly a lot of feminist screeds on the internet. The problem is, I never meet these women in real life. It's just a bunch of unattractive women with way too much free time on their hands complaining about men on their blogs.

Attractive women, or even social fat women are not the ones going on about this stuff. It's irrelevant to anything in my actual reality.

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RSDTyler

Coolness.

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If something's not fun, it's not worth doing

I'm sure that's true. Honestly, I don't disagree with anything I've read since I've started posting on this thread. I do think society is being shaped in a fairly shameless way by those who despise masculinity and would have men saying "please" and "sorry" for our every desire.

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If something's not fun, it's not worth doing