+1

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Lol bro. And yeah that's actually the problem, efficiency. I don't really care about efficiency, I don't want the girl after this one, I want THIS one. If I set my sights on a girl, I want to learn how to get her. If I screw up fine, I want to know how I can do better next time.

Yeah going to be honest, I read the Game. The moment style said he was a writer I knew it was just going to be 'A story' dolled up so it was interesting. But then I did my research, discovered the PUA community, and dived into the knowledge, the dream of being a master seductionist. What's the point of being a Seductionist if you don't actually seduce the women you talk to, Nexting her when she does something you don't like.

I agree that PUA has changed into more Self-help, and i'm glad to the addition. If it wasn't for Inner-game, I probably wouldn't have had the confidence to post this, much less to say FUCK ALL THE HATERS (Dat keyboard confidence wow ) Even though i still haven't really gotten into bodylanguage (Seems like an entire branch of game upon itself) Pickup changed my life completely.

That said, it's the DREAM, that Pick-up artist Promise that keeps me motivated. Yeah I may be brainwashed, but rightly so. When your ego is constantly pounded into NOTHING meeting failure after failure trying to learn and get better, there's little else to hold on to. I don't have a huge kill count or a huge ass social circle yet, but I've got a dream and a goal. I'm working on it.

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Two words: Carpe Diem

Thats another problem with the community, just because you dont get the girl doesn't mean you screwed up. Sure, you might have, or she just might be unavailable/not attracted to your type.

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Never get broken up with again: the-addiction-formula-never-get-broken- ... 88794.html

Well first thing that comes to mind is Tyler needs to brush up on his psychological terminology.

Anyway, you're focusing too much on what Oneitis is and not what the meaning behind the "good [parts]" of it is. I think what Vic was saying is you should have enough of oneitis(Read: Interest) to pursue a woman to an extent instead of simply giving up because she didn't show interest in you on your first encounter or after your opener. Unnatural was all about swaying that and not giving up so easily. Oneitis was a poor choice of word to use but you can see what he was getting at; allow yourself to have enough interest to pursue a woman and really test the waters and try sway her interest. Endure the shit tests, a term that has seemingly been removed from Natural game altogether -- rather never existed! Shit tests are actually a real thing and they happen a lot but instead Naturals will mostly tell you to move on.

Also, yeah... Of course some women aren't going to be into you, that's just out of your control but that should be considered roughly 10% of women who you can't get even if you play it perfectly. That's the difference with Natural and Unnatural. Unnatural is about getting as close to 100% success rate as possible; it's designed to keep her interested in you from the start. It works too but you won't have 100% with it, more 90%... For instance, from the great Eddie Murphy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UYzVqcjJ6k

It's funny. Listening to him there's a direct correlation to PUA. Women have a game but it's widely known among them and men(We just get terrible advice or no advice at all on how to cope with their games). "They cater to your ego" and trap you in the "Pussy trap." Women do this with men all the time. How many guys have been with ugly women but fell for them anyway? Why did they fall for them? They played them that's why! It happens all the time and it happens for men too, it's the old way of gaming women. When you perfect the old way you'll be able to score 90% of the women you pursue. You pick and choose, you don't just settle for any old randomer that passes the 7/10 mark or reciprocates some IOI. I find Natural relies mostly on her initial attraction to you and your frame as an alpha male as opposed to Unnatural where you grab a woman's attention and insert yourself into a set without looking for initial attraction.

I've noticed this too, standards in natural seem to be a lot lower than what I was expecting. You may get lucky and get a HB8 the odd time in a social setting but the majority of the time you'll be scoring 7's. Before PUA I used to take my time. I had no game but I was picky, really picky. I would only score women that were 8.5's or above. Some of the women I had been with would make even the most Alpha and attractive of men do a doubletake. I would generally score a lot less than other players but when I did get someone they were noteworthy. In Unnatural it worked really well and this was just over a year ago where I got a solid HB9, the type of woman guys would stop you over and ask how big your dick was to have got a woman like that. Since taking up Natural game i've been stuck with attraction from 7 or 7.5's. I, personally, find Natural game just preaches laziness and lack of pursuit in the name of playing a numbers game. If you're okay with that then fine but I think a fine line should be drawn between those who settle for a lay every week from a random HB6 or 7 and those who would rather wait up to a month to fuck a proper HB8 or 9 and have something of more quality.

Natural just seems to be a numbers game where Unnatural is about seeing a woman who grabs your interest. It's not for everyone, some are for specific people. Some men have higher standards than others and will be picky. For those men I wouldn't follow the mentality behind Natural PUA, I would follow the mentality of Unnatural PUA but work BOTH forms of PUA into your game. What Natural mentality is, in essence, to just fuck someone. That's it. Unnatural is about fucking someone you actually want. Natural is about saving your ego while getting a loose goal: Sex. If she doesn't reciprocate interest in you then she's not worth it. Unnatural is taking the blame on yourself and the responsibility of it. If you pursue through and fail it's either your fault or she just wasn't into you for whatever reason.

Find out what onitis means: http://www.pualingo.com/pua-definitions/one-itis/


The rest is a bunch of kj and mental masturbation. I am off this topic, good luck to you!

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http://www.dancefloorseduction.com

Dancefloor/Club game youtube channel:
http://www.youtube.com/dancefloorseduction

Agreed.

Guys who are good with women don't worry about getting every women. The only time I ever worried about it was back when I didn't get hardly any women. Once a guy starts getting laid he will stop caring about "getting as close to 100% as possible."

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Rip this straight from Yahoo Answers relationships did ya?

Let me wave goodbye to you Skills and Warped as you exit the thread. It doesn't agree with you, doesn't align with your notion of your reality so you eject. The thread is wrong, it can't be anything wrong with YOUR mindset right? No need to take responsibility and actually learn something. You're perfect, everyone else is the Keyboard jockey and masturbating mentally because they don't agree with you.

Ladies and gentlemen, #1 PUA forum leaders. What you can expect to learn from PUA 2013, eject.

I took a day off replying as I normally do when a thread of mine gets a little heated. Tried to see it a different way, the big picture, and the opposite view. Fact is I've seen it that way all my life. Guys considered good with women have way lower standards.

Everything you say proves my initial frustration. Being good with women, and getting amazing women are two completely different things. If they weren't PUA wouldn't exist. It wouldn't need to if there were enough amazing to go around for every guy.

PUA is supposed to be IT. THE seduction knowledge base, the things women don't(but secretly do) want you to know. It's a JOKE to be called PUA nowadays, there's little to distinguish you from the guy that just has a ton of confidence and knows how to make people laugh. Sure that sounds great, but it's not enough. Nowadays, if she doesn't laugh, something is wrong with her. No one takes responsibility that you screwed up, you're NOT enough.

OMG what?! That's like completely Anti-Natural what you just said.

Yeah! Cause PUA ISN'T NATURAL. You want to seduce a woman despite whatever mental blockage she has, it takes work. THAT goal takes work. It'll never be NATURAL. You'll become a better man, yes. Anything you work at makes you better in some way or form. But you will never be more Natural than a true Natural. You'll always be a 'Fake' Natural. (See how redundant that is? It's not meant to be)

Point is, I'm not gaming to compete with Naturals. I will never be Naturally good with women, I missed the chance, I stopped chasing it. What I can be however is very good at PUA by studying, practicing, mastering. It's a Skill, retainable. The last thing I want to hear from my teachers is that they are Half-baked PUAs that are content with settling, content with the notion of you can't win them all, when they just haven't figured it out themselves. And with the notion of there is something impossible in this world in their head, it must be a much darker place than the flipside.

I'm humbled that my opinion received so many replies from members of the community, students and leaders alike, and I'm sorry that we could not resolve our teachers 'Natural-pussy-its' I believe that may require a more direct thread at the Problem, but for now, I continue on to restore PUA to it's former glory as a community of Seductionist by being the change I want to see in it(Thank you Gandhi). Thank you for reading.

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Two words: Carpe Diem

Dear Sage,

I'm genuinely interested about your need to be able to pick up any women.

Why do you want the power to be able to pick up any woman you want ?
Would it make you feel better ?
If yes then why ?
What's the reason behind you wanting to be with 6 woman on the same night ?
Let's assume you have this ability. How would you spend you day ? Would you go out and pick up and have sex with a different woman every day ?

I am very interested to hear your answers. I recommend you watch Shame. It's about a guy who fucks every single woman he sees.

I'm going to straight answer your questions before clarifying.

-Honestly, because I know the value of an amazing woman at your side later in life.
-Just like any skill, knowing there's something I without a doubt CAN DO would make me feel better as a person yes.
-I ask myself that alot, and it's because of how useful it is! Controlling my advantage over men and women alike. It's a little dark, but that's why PUA used to be the seduction underground.
-Cause i'm still limber! Really any high number would cut it for me, its the experience that matters
-Absolutely normal, however with the exception of seeing an intresting woman and being able to attract and connect with her within minutes, placing her in my giant book of dates and schedules. Enjoying an amazing womans' company along with sky-diving, snowboarding, etc. Enjoying an amazing womans' company along with an Amazing life.

Thank you for asking so that I can clarify. I don't want EVERY woman, no haha, but I do hope to be able to set very high standards for the women I can get once I have really worked at this PUA thing. My love and genuine appreciation of women is something completely different, but something I think everyone in the game needs to have to avoid bitter resentment that PUA has been known to cause.

Example, lets say Beyonce divorced Jay-Z(Or not >:D). As a true PUA, I would love to say 'Yeah, I could get her if I want' Some would say impossible, she's a celebrity worth millions. And no, it wouldn't by any means be easy! But the ability to say 'In the end, she's just a woman' is what I desire, if that makes sense. That's what I want out of Pick up. I want the best out of life, and some women are better than others due to looks, ambition, talent, what have you (although it boils down to preference in the end)

I hope that clears it up

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Two words: Carpe Diem

Why is it so hard for you to understand that sometimes when a girl "rejects"/blows you off it has nothing to do with you. It doesn't always mean you made some mistake. Think of it this way... you are on your way to a once in a lifetime meeting thats hold extreme importance too you. While rushing down the road someone tries to stop you to talk but you either ignore them or say "I have no time for you." Did that person make some "tactical mistake" or was you just simply too busy?

Anyways, your pretty set with your opinions and though I disagree with them I wish you luck kid. My last piece of advice to you is to try and step outside the box and realize that the community has brainwashed you. I was there once too and I hope you see the big picture one day.

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This makes a lot of sense. It's a good things that you want to improve aspects of your life. I really like the fact that you actually not looking to get women to fill some kind of hole but to accompany you on your amazing life. Which brings me to my advice. Build up an amazing life. Have goals. Work out a plan of how to achieve them.
If you get this sorted you can leave this forum at this very moment. And you will be able to attract hot woman with good qualities without any effort or pick up knowledge.

I have to say that this topic merely is about different points of view on one subject.

On the other hand, I find myself agreeing with guys like Warped, poetic and skills; they all think outside the box when it comes to oneitis.

What you seem to be missing here Sage is that those guys EXPERIENCED oneitis before, they were where you are now and moved on.

Besides, this is you at this particular time in your life and your agry perspective towards what`s been preached out there in the PUA community.

No one can claim here that has the ultimate truth, nor will you ever. When you are stating that you are here to be the best, you are here to hit every single ball; you are condemning yourself to lose.

This is for a very simple reason: you are setting the goal too damn high on you.

At a first glance, there should be nothing wrong with that! What`s wrong with aspiring to become the best?

Well, a couple of reasons: For starters; you have no fucking idea how to get there.

You are missing a map, a pretty important thing if you ask me.

And since you are setting the goal that high on your life, do you even know were you are standing right now?
A bit of a warning: if you keep focusing on this, you might find yourself even more lost then before you set your mind to it.

Take it from a guy that has been on that road.

Last piece is that your perspective will change over time, you will see different at things a year from now, let alone 5 years from now. Because that`s what life is: change.

Embrace it.

Just so we're clear:

A Master Seducer FUCKS 2-3 out of 10 women he approaches.

Now talking, attracting, escalating, they may be able to do 8 and 9 out of 10 but guess what? They aren't even attractive to EVERY girl they meet.

Now someone who is a master of body language can fuck 8 and 9 out of 10 women he goes for... but he is capitalizing on screening(for attraction, dtf, and arousal for instance is what I used to focus on) and he isn't choosing women. Women are choosing him and he just knows how to move along the escalation process, he bats at a great average because of skills, experience, and great screening.

EVEN MASTER SEDUCERS CAN'T FUCK EVERY WOMAN.

Yeah be the best you can be, but why not start with being the best you can be. This process is trial and error just like ANY thing else you learn: talking, walking, running, reading, writing, etc. You will have to "fall" and get back up. That's how you get better at anything.

Strive to be the best but in the end realize perfection is impossible and it's ok that you don't get every girl.

There is an issue with only being satisfied with perfection, not with striving for it.

Do I believe you can improve your skills immensely? Yeah, but don't get shit twisted here, you'll never get 100% of women you approach unless you approach none.

As for all this natural game bs, well you realize RSD is like the biggest self-help orientated program of all of them right? You mention people going natural game/unnatural game and all this bull shit.... all that matters is that you get laid whether that involves a routine or natural game. I don't like routines personally because I enjoy in building genuine connections and actually having a genuine real interaction vs. a fake bull shit one that isn't fun for me (I don't like my interactions dry). However, the reality is natural game comes from inside you. Every "PUA" that gets good eventually realizes you can dress up everything you got on the outside but if you don't fix the inside shit: you won't be happy, you will just start all over as soon as you realize natural/being yourself is the best form of game, you'll eventually hate what you've become because it won't be you.

Natural game is harder to learn because it's based on you and most people don't focus on being a better them when they get to the community they want to know bull shit about the "tricks" to getting women. The reality is those tricks are useless if you don't have the confidence to look a woman in the eyes, approach her, or have a conversation with her. Or even be yourself for that matter.

Peace and Love,

Vic

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Just another guy from back in the day.

Blogging again living life: http://www.Scienceofnaturalgame.com

You know what, I hear you guys. I hear everything you guys are trying to tell me, if I could use the quote feature in post I would pick out some of the really good things you guys have said so far that have hit home.

I'd be the biggest liar ever if I said natural game hasn't improved my confidence, hell my life immensely. I work with hired guns, and the difference between first starting to read posts from here and today is like night and day. Eye contact was thought impossible back then, but today I eye-fuck every single one of them New guys ask me how I do it, how all the ladies love me...I never tell them blood, sweat, tears, and #1PUAForum haha. Being with this community and taking in all it has to teach about life, direction, and self-assuredness has transformed me into the awesome person I am today.

But...

Id be lying if I said that it was for me. The only thing that ever felt RIGHT to me was when I failed in the field. The meditation, the nexting, the life planning...it all seemed important sure but it wasn't what I got into PUA for. When I try something new, had the courage to try it out even though it was unproven to work, and succeeded or failed, it makes me happy down to my core. What i'm saying is as awesome as I have become, what's most important to me is getting out into the field, trying new things, actually DOING things rather than waiting around for them to happen to me.

For example, I THINK a key point of natural game is not creating attraction yourself but simply BEING attractive, doing things that makes you attractive to OTHERS. Well as a person I don't really care much about that. I cannot learn from that. I cannot ask people how attractive I am (Well I could, but it's all relative to the individual) but what I can see are the tangible results crafted when I create it with my words, actions, and body language while i'm in set.

I know the perfectionist road is damn near foolhardy, especially on something that requires OTHER PEOPLE as validation to your success. But I really believe I can do it. It's a gut feeling you know? To give up on it is like giving up on a life dream at this point in my life, if you can relate to that. There is no doubt in my mind that I will achieve what most of you say is impossible. To be THE PUA, and everything that goes with it. I wouldn't be able to squash the feeling even if I tried. I couldn't tell you if i'm brainwashed or if i'm egotistical or something, I just know how it feels.

By the way Bond(Awesome name btw), Sometimes all one needs is a general direction and the courage to be the trailblazer, the one to DRAW the map. I have no fear of being lost, everywhere is somewhere. I love the journey.

The only thing I personally want out of Pick-up is the seduction skills and techniques to improve in-field. The life advice is nice and good intentioned but i'm just too Young, Ambitious, and Brash to see it have any immediate usefulness. And maybe continuing down this perfectionist PUA road really is a mistake, but I was always one to choose Spartan over Luxury. The faster I master Seduction, the quicker I will see for myself whether it was a mistake or not, and I think that's all any of us can do; See for ourselves. And if I do make it happen, it'll be a result of my own hard work and staying true to what I believe, even through what was previously thought impossible.

I'm so glad I made this thread, helped me really get my head on right about what exactly i'm facing and where I want to go in Pick-up(Thanks to the community feedback). All I can say now is remember the Name Syx. I intend to make waves a couple of years from now, matured and hopefully still on the same path. But today, I remain a student.

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Two words: Carpe Diem

You are all set then buddy, determination is deffinitivelly not an issue on your life.

The best of luck on your journey, keep at it and someday I`ll be asking advice for you.

Hope you remember this thread