Bitter is an understatement. I have no problem with helping people but it is misinformed dangerous people like this guy that damage this community. His need to generalise and attack a whole range of people is disappointing. I sincerely just hope that people don't take him seriously.

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How ironic that you consider us to all be being played like 'the fiddles' we are, but in fact it seems you are the one bitter that people are being paid more then you. I will repeat; RESULTS are all that matter. I am happy. I make a good living with a lot of freedom. It appears this isn't the case for you. If it is, I don't know why you are so bitter. Now either contribute something of value or leave. Simple! But stop hating on the successful people who have been able to ACHIEVE what you have not!

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The fact that I look down on people like you doesn't make me bitter. Arrogant? Sure. Bitter? not at all.
You are a nobody, you have achieved nothing, and you will die an old nobody, but you will always think that you're a somebody, and I think that is adorable.

I have achieved nothing? Where is your evidence? You are a SOMEBODY? Prove it. Keep it objective. I don't want your opinion, I want indisputable facts. I will die an old nobody? Haha, you will probably die a young nobody with your attitude.

As I said, contribute something of value or leave. Your misinformed views are annoying and incredibly inaccurate. I do like how you just expect people to believe what you say without any evidence. Baseless personal attacks is all you have in your arsenal. Neck up and do something useful or buzz off.

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I never said I amount to anything at all. As it is, I'm a nobody. This entire argument was started by your ad hominems, and condescending attacks on me. You do not tell me "Class is in session", and to get an education, without being called out for being the nobody you truly are, with your "pharmacy degree" and your amazing "products" that you make (like every marketer, of course). I know your type. You're one of the hoards of middle class chumps that drive your financed cars and live in your cookie cutter suburban houses and think that you have it all figured out in life. You walk around with worthless diplomas from even more worthless universities and tell people who knew more in high school than you ever will to get an education. You think that your soon to fail business with a meager revenue indicates that somehow you made it in life, and go around condescending to others with sayings like "class is in session", and then turn in to a little bitch when you get slapped back in the face with your own insignificance. So fuck off, and don't expect someone to bend over for you when you come in and start personal attacks.

We finally agree on something. You are a nobody.

And no, this entire argument was started by saying that monogamy SHOULD be promoted as a moral directive when I believe it shouldn't.

"You're one of the hoards of middle class chumps that drive your financed cars and live in your cookie cutter suburban houses and think that you have it all figured out in life." Wrong once again. There is no truth to this at all. So in fact you don't know my 'type' because AGAIN your ASSUMPTIONS ARE ALL WRONG!

So now diplomas and university degrees are worthless? You were just saying before that is what matters. "Real education" where you can then make "Real money" Please, At least stay consistent.

My soon to fail business? It certainly hasn't happened yet. Nothing is certain. Plenty of businesses have gone bust. But plenty have withheld the test of time as well. Are you a fortune teller as well now?

You fuck off, neck the fuck up and realise that I am not going to bow to your bullshit. I certainly don't expect anyone to bend over for me but I am not going to stand by and let scum like you influence others to think that you are superior to 'marketers' or 'investment bankers' or 'professional athletes'. As you are a self proclaimed nobody, why does your opinion matter again?

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As I said, every thread I post he finds his way into it, EVERY THREAD. The guy is worse than a pissed off ex!!!

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I just come on here these days to give advice and read interesting threads. Gone are the days when I came to seek advice and validation.

Well I am perhaps contributing to his lunacy by responding so maybe I should just remove myself from the situation. And also by responding I am somewhat contributing to the derailing of a useful thread. You have warned me and for that I am grateful. Thank you.

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lol. Bow to my bullshit eh? You keep hiding behind that monitor, champ. It's making you awful brave.I have nothing to prove to you. You're just another tool on a computer trying to prove what a champ you are, patronizing and insulting others, and then getting awfully brave when they tell you off. My ASSUMPTIONS are that you are a statistically average chump, and thus far, you have said nothing to show otherwise.
I am a nobody. But I'm also 23, and I have something you never will. I have intellect. Someday, with luck, I may become a somebody. Unfortunately, that doesn't seem like a possibility for you. Go sell some dick pills and leave intellectual conversations to intellectuals.

PS. If you want to stop this idiotic dick waving contest and have an intellectual discussion, feel free to do so. I don't even ask for an apology. As long as you refrain from personal attacks, you can expect me to stay civil and argue only against your points.

PPS. This was my last dick "wave". From here on out, I'm ignoring any and all personal attacks on this thread. If someone makes a point contradicting mine, I will present a counterpoint.

Ok, I accept your apology. You have had bad experiences with marketers in the past and don't trust them as a result. I can't change your past or your viewpoint for that matter. I don't sell dick pills. So please stop inferring such things that are untrue. You mean well but have felt that my attack on the rationale behind promoting monogamy as a moral directive is an attack on you personally. An unfortunate miscommunication. It was an attack on the construct which I feel is failing us severely. It is difficult for me to have a conversation with someone who thinks he has intellect and that I don't based on nothing more then a few forum posts that you disagree with. Nevertheless, I will from here on let the past be the past.

Going back to the original point post dick waving contest: I see no reason why monogamy should be promoted as a moral directive. I think that when their are children involved that the most important things are love and care, not who you choose to have sexual relations with. I feel as if we focused more on what actually matters and the most important variable in any relationship 'positivity', then the world would be a better place.

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I did not offer you an apology. I said we can go on without any being offered from either side.

To the point: I think that love and care, to most people, involve an expectation of exclusivity. I personally don't know any girls that would be cool dating me if I was to inform them I would be dating others. I'm certain they exist, but they are not the norm, but the exception.
I know that for girls I've dated, as well as for myself, there would be a huge block to closeness knowing that they share that same closeness with someone else. I believe that seeing multiple people necessarily creates a distance between people which can destabilize a relationship. I know for a fact that I have never felt attachment to girls who I knew were sleeping with others. I simply don't see how it would be remotely healthy to allow myself to develop any. The only girls I have felt attached to are those who I knew were not seeing others on the side. When I was cheated on, my attachment for them disappeared and I was able to walk away without any hesitation.
I'm bringing my experience up because its what I'm familiar with the most. Generalizing to people I know, this appears to hold.
Once again, note that I have been on both sides of the fence. My argument is that monogamous relationships are stronger than poly.

Another point. In my opinion, a man cheating on his wife is a lot more likely to develop feelings for a woman he's sleeping with and to leave the wife, than if he was merely friends with the other women. This creates unstable families. Society doesn't want this because it creates fallout for children and the social order, I think that promoting monogamy as a modal directive is perfectly reasonable on the part of society. However I will say again that we are NOT OBLIGATED to follow this directive, and can do as we please. Why is it necessary for us to change the directive?

Ok, I can accept that people want a sense of exclusivity. My issue is that it must be for the right reasons. Not for power etc. If I promised a woman monogamy and then she used that to cut off sex from me or thought it was some sort of ownership she now had over me, I would be deeply offended as it would compromise my core value: Freedom.

I don't agree with you when you say that sleeping with more people creates a distance. For one, it doesn't have to be an ongoing thing. Maybe just an every now and then thing. And secondly, a considerable amount of people are of the opinion that this brings more to their life. Getting away from the competitive mentality is what is required for this to work on a larger scale. Instead of people thinking, 'wow that guy I am hooking up with is hooking up with someone else, he is mine, back off bitch', it needs to be reframed to: 'that person I am hooking up with has the freedom to meet his/her needs elsewhere that I can't meet'. The thing is, no one person is perfect. So there are always going to be things that you can't experience with that person.

I understand with your cheating remark. That is not what I am arguing however. That person agreed to see you exclusively and then lied. I am not advocating that for a second.

My argument is that relationships should be custom suited to people in them. Monogamy works sometimes, but fails a lot. It should be an option but certainly not a 'must' which I feel society propagates.

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I don't think a man should 'cheat' on his wife. At that point, he is already in a monogamous relationship. I am saying that it is unnecessary to do that in the first place. Some people want to: fine. But people with other sexual arrangements shouldn't be dismissed as inferior. I have seen in a lot of instances that they work a lot better. It is a completely different mindset. So all in all I am not disagreeing with your point because the premise is different to what I am arguing.

A monogamous relationship is about someone seeing you and seeing you only. A polygamous relationship is about allowing the individual the freedom to express themselves sexually to have their needs to be fulfilled and to THINK of this as a good thing, not a bad thing. My issue is that we are brainwashed to think that Monogamy= Good, anything else= BAD. One size does not fit all and there are many happy families I know that have arrangements such as these. But they are CUSTOM. The individuals involved discuss their needs and then go about finding a way to meet them. The reason for changing the directive is that Monogamy fails a lot. It puts unnecessary pressures on families. It should be viewed as an OPTION so that people who truly want to be monogamous can be. Otherwise, practice something else. Always focusing on what is best for everyone involved and keeping the relationship positive.

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Obviously if a woman is using the promise of exclusivity to control a man through sex it means there are issues in the relationship.
As for a side affair now and then, sure, historically it has worked, but only as long as it was discreet and never discovered. I realize society is obsessed with honesty these days but a man informing his wife that he's going to bang his secretary is probably going to cause more trouble than if he chances it and does it discreetly. The crime is the lie, and that's what makes it wrong, but without the lie, the relationship would probably fall apart anyways, especially if an arrangement like that wasn't agreed upon from the beginning.
I don't believe monogamy is a must, but my personal preference is that I have to be in a monogamous relationship before I let myself get emotionally involved. I will be the first here to admit that I would be very jealous of letting some guy fuck a girl I love.