I think the core problem is social skills and PUA never really mention it.If a guy has great social skills he will have no problem in finding a women.It's all about social skills and confidence which can only be developed through socializing as much as possible.It's also annoying when they only focus on getting her number.Getting her number is actually one of the easiest steps as long as you have confidence and some social skills.There no specific rules to when and how to approach women.You just do it whenever you feel like doing it.Women are different,they have different tastes in men and different intellect.That's it.

working on social skills takes time, its not marketable. That said I disagree with you social skills and women are related but they are still different.

If a girl rejects you it simply means she didn't like what you shows to her. It is not a failure. If you were fake as fuck and she likes that, then good luck for you. If you were natural and your BEST SELF and still got rejected, then she simply didn't like you.

Why think about it as a failure when are so picky about women ourselves?

I will agree with some of the stuff you said.

PUA industry teaches guys to go around rejection and has bunch of openers and routine based on it. In reality, facing rejection is what needs to be taught.

However, there is a lot of stuff I have learned from pick up about women, that would have taken me years to figure out on my own. So I would not say fuck pick up.

Get real also. Get your ass kick 100 times? Sing National Anthem in Victoria's Secret Underwear? That's way to extreme.

What's funny is that everyone seems to agree that the PUA scene is a load of bullshit on a PUA forum. I don't understand?

I for one think that if you embrace the teaching and are smart enough to separate the wheat from the chaff (I'm not going to walk up to a girl and tell her I like pickle juice) then you'll do much better girls than if you get drunk until you're brave enough to walk up to a girl and tell her she's beautiful or ask if she'll let you buy her a drink which is what 90% of fellas do these days.

Does everyone on this thread agree in part that PUA's teach us nothing then? Is that what I'm hearing?

Quite the opposite. the jest of PUA is to learn how to be more social with girls so we can approach and pick them up. That is the whole point of it really. If you haven't notice there isn't exactly a lot of talk about the PUA material that is marketed and sold here on the forums. Most guys here realize most of the PUA material that is marketed and sold is crap. Very little if any is of any use. Plus you can learn more on this forum than from a book imo. That's how I learned pick up.

Something that i see a lot in this thread is the mix up between PU and PU Industry.
They are NOT the same thing.

PU should be seen as guidelines to improve yourself. Unfortunately, we live in a money world, where the value of quality doesnt measure up to the value of money.

_________________
"Stop being a fucking vagina and escalate" - CaptainJackHarkness

Like the naked leads the blind.
I know I'm selfish, I'm unkind.
Sucker love I always find,
Someone to bruise and leave behind.
placebo - every me, every you

I could be wrong but it's my opinion that a lot of people on this forum have been involved in the PUA scene for a long time and have now reached a level where the material isn't relevant to them any more but to beginners it's invaluable.

I remember when I was first starting out and didn't have a clue what to do, what to say, what mind set would help me. I'd hover around and sometimes I'd walk up to a girl and ask her if I could buy her a drink. I was clueless.

The fundamentals what I learned from people like Savoy and Mystery really helped out and I reached a stage where I was able to pull a girl each time I went out. I even had girls fighting over me and I thanks literature such as DYD and magic bullets for that success.

Now I've been out of the game for so long that I've forgotten a lot of what I learned but I'm rereading what I can find on my hard drive and it's still relevant in my opinion.

I understand that once you reach a certain level of competence with women that you no longer need a lot of what is written but I think to write it off as a load of rubbish is wrong. Most of us were lead to this community and to the level we've arrived at by books we read I would imagine.

If you were dead-set on becoming a lawyer, doctor or molecular biologist, you can do it with trial and error, it just takes more time and wasted effort/money.

Or you can just buy a textbook and push yourself years ahead in a few days.

Same concept with PUA.

Once you're actually out there, it's like "Why didn't I do this before" but it was the actual 100 page book and "attaboy" that got you started and save you months/years of crappy relationships, marriage, divorce, child support etc to get to the same point.

If you spent $50 on books to get to that point, big whoop, that's like 1 dinner at Olive Garden. And if it gets you to a healthier game, both inner and outer, then that's a good investment, you invested in yourself and your own people skills that will come in handy.

Just don't forget that inner game is the most important.

True confidence comes from BEING a better man, not just pretending to be one. You can pretend to be alpha all you want, but if you're just a little b&tch and deep inside you know that, all your confidence is pure fake bullschit, a facade that you have to work hard to keep up.

"Fake it till you make it" is ok. Just don't forget the "make it" part.

You cannot fake being alpha all your life.

At some point in the PUA journey it's not about faking anymore, it's about self-improvement and BECOMING a better man so you don't have to memorize pickup lines. You can just walk up to a woman and your aura will be enough, because now you work out, eat right, go to school, have good job, read the classics, etc.

I can tell you right now, reading "The Game" changed my life, and it was the best $20 I ever spent, I am 10x stronger person than I was.

This is the same attitude I have.

I love your quote. "fake it til you make it but don't forget the make it part." So true.

I really think that inner game is important but most people earn the inner game rather than reading books about it. Inner game is something which comes organically but the text you read on openers, transitions, negs etc is what give you the little bit of inside knowledge and a nudge in the right direction.

I think the whole PUA thing is completely underrated and not used by enough men. This is both a bad and a good thing. Bad because so many men are missing out and women encounter much more needy fellas than they should but good because the less men that know this stuff, the more women there are for me. Also if every man knew about this and used it then it would quickly morph in to the new cheesy thing that fellas do and women would be extremely paranoid that they're being picked up by an artist lol.

This is the same attitude I have.

I love your quote. "fake it til you make it but don't forget the make it part." So true.

I really think that inner game is important but most people earn the inner game rather than reading books about it. Inner game is something which comes organically but the text you read on openers, transitions, negs etc is what give you the little bit of inside knowledge and a nudge in the right direction.

I think the whole PUA thing is completely underrated and not used by enough men. This is both a bad and a good thing. Bad because so many men are missing out and women encounter much more needy fellas than they should but good because the less men that know this stuff, the more women there are for me. Also if every man knew about this and used it then it would quickly morph in to the new cheesy thing that fellas do and women would be extremely paranoid that they're being picked up by an artist lol.

Its natural, but f'd up none the less....