How do you deal with them?

I'm currently dating a girl who is really slow, sexually.

We went on 2 great dates, I've been receiving tons of non-verbal IOI's (qualifies herself, laughs constantly, eye fucks me, touches me etc). I've been escalating kino by the book as well as giving the conversation a sexual twist. I know she's into me. If you're familiar with the Vin Dicarlo escalation ladder then I followed it properly and I'm currently on the brink of the escalation ramp.

But after 2 dates I didn't even kiss her. At first I thought maybe I just fucked up by not going for it, but after the 2nd date I realized that's just how she is. Her body is sending great signs but when she realizes things are getting sexual her ASD goes crazy. It's like she has no problem eye fucking me but when we're both quiet she'll look away or start talking about something else. Quite frankly after our 2nd date didn't end with a kiss close I thought about not seeing her anymore because I'm being friendzoned.

But apparently I wasn't. After I left she sent me a text saying she had a great time and that she's sorry if she's moving too slow for me and that's just how she is. She explained that it takes her some time to feel comfortable and open to someone. She made it clear that she's interested and that she wants to be more than friends. This makes sense from what I heard about her past relationships.

I'm into her, and I honestly don't mind waiting a little. But I don't see how we can keep seeing each other while she's making it so hard to escalate. How the hell am I supposed to date her and just act like a friend? This will get me nowhere.

I'm looking for a way to build a lot of comfort because that's clearly what she needs, while maintaining strong attraction and not being friendzoned.

All of my experience and the material I read is about short courtship, no more than 8 hours total. But this might take much longer. I'm willing to invest the time, I just need a solid plan.

Thanks.

I can relate. Last week I had a date with a type of girl you describe. I didn't kiss her, because, although I knew she liked me, her body language indicated that she wasn't open enough yet to go for it. She even also texted me that she enjoyed the date.

Things are a bit bussy and confusing now, but if we get to a date 2 soon, then I will surely go for the kiss. I'm confident in my sexuality, and I need her to be drawn into my reality.

As I haven't tested the second date yet I can't say things for sure. But my hypothese is: it's okay if you didn't kiss her on the first date, or even second date. It doesn't have to mean that you're friendzoned at all as long as you keep this tension. But if you want to continue this, you have to kiss her sometime. From her part, she can't just keep on dating you and telling you that she likes you but abstain from kissing or getting sexual. That's not fair. You have the right to express your sexuality, and she should know that. I wouldn't do anything stupid (force yourself too much to kiss her in a way it feels like rape) but I would try it at least, by caressing her hair, neck and cheeck, looking in her eyes and even going for in the kiss. If she doesn't want to, tell her you like her but that you can't continue like this and break with her if she still doesn't want to kiss.

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I'm curious as to how this girl is making it "difficult" to kiss her. If she pulls her face away and kicks you in the balls, then I can understand. If she simply isn't initiating the kiss, then she isn't difficult, you're just expecting her to take the lead, which isn't what you should be doing.

Here's a few signs I look for, and these aren't hard to notice like the usual "is she looking at your lips."

If she isn't recoiling when your hand is on her neck.
If you're holding hands and she plays/squeezes your hand.

Leading every step of the way and then suddenly stopping before the kiss isn't a question of fairness, it's just being incongruent. I hate to use that term because it reminds me of math class, but it's true.

Go for the kiss in the middle of the date, if it doesn't go well, then at least you have a chance to kiss her again later. Waiting until the very end puts way more pressure on the kiss, when it's really a simple affectionate action otherwise.

That's what I did so far. Thing is, whenever I do this she takes a step back. It's like the tension is always there under the surface, but when she becomes aware of it the vibe suddenly changes.
I thought about this, but it kind of seems like an AFC move. Besides, I want her to want it, not feel like she owes me something. Right now I can't decide whether I should keep dating her in the same pace (we dated twice within a week) or maybe freeze her out a little by telling her I already made plans for the weekend. I think she needs to feel like she's about to lose me, but I don't want to push her too far because she's obviously not comfortable enough to chase me.
I guess she just has a very strong ASD. She just won't get sexual. Whenever she feels like things are getting tense she starts to talk about random things and the vibe gets all friendly. I'm not expecting her to take the lead, but I do need cooperation. I just can't get her to shut up and come closer!
Yeah I agree. I thought about that after the 1st date and decided I'll go for the kiss in the middle of the 2nd date. Unfortunately we were seated in front of each other with a table in the way so that made things difficult. After we finished our drinks I suggested we go grab something to eat because we were both hungry. We then sat next to each other but this time her ASD got in the way. Same thing in the end of the date.

I know this looks like she might not be interested but all the other signs suggest that she is. Tons of IOI's, she's always texting me and she's always the one to suggest we meet. In her last text she made it clear that we're not just friends.

I think it's a combination of several problems:
1. Very strict parents & education.
2. Lack of experience (21 and only 2 boyfriends, both LTR).
3. We were just friends a few years ago so making that switch might be hard.
4. She got out of a 2 year relationship 4 months ago.
5. A few years ago I slept with 2 of her friends.

My current LTR made her last long term boyfriend wait 3 MONTHS before having sex with him. He must have thought she was a real "take it slow" "good-girl."

How long did it take me to sleep with her?

2 dates.

A girl will be exactly as much of a good girl or dirty whore as you allow her to be. The girl will always mould herself around the implicit expectations you set up by the way you interact with her.

If you take her out to nice places, qualify her on her cooking skills, and wait until the second or third date to kiss her, guess what - you got a "good girl" on your hands.

If you take her out somewhere casual, qualify her on her dick-sucking ability, and lead her physically, touch her up under the table, spout dirty talk into her ear every so often, and try and get her back to yours to fuck on a first date (whilst all the time remaining completely non-judgmental and non-reactive), lo-and-behold, miss goody-two-shoes actually turns out to be a dirty little whore, whaddya know.

To finish, here's a direct quote from 60YOC about sexual tension and reacting to her ASD (my emphasis added):

"Escalation & Resistance
Anytime you get verbal or physical resistance there will be even more tension in the air. This is good news. Resistance is great! But if you react to the resistance verbally (ie. trying to diffuse the awkwardness by making a joke) you will kill that tension. The same thing happens if you look sad and become pouty. If you don't react to her resistance it never becomes real. It's not official. It's like it never happened. Being unreactive and keeping composed lets you be very persistent without coming across needy.

Tests/Asd
Many times it's not just you. When women become aroused they will try to reduce the tension by baiting you to break rapport. Of course you fall for this trap because you think you need to break rapport to create sexual tension. See the problem? The sexual tension is already there.

Even witty comebacks and reframes can reduce tension. As such, tests are best handled this way. Hold seductive eye contact, smile and turn your head away slowly. If her test is due to a legitimate sexual comfort issue then your response can be delivered in a sexual but serious tone.

ie.

~ We are not having sex tonight.

We're both adults. We will do whatever we are comfortable with.* "

=> You're way too focused on the "problems" stopping you, e.g. her past history, upbringing, etc. Stop worrying about what she's thinking, and by doing so reacting to her (token) resistance. Focus on the solution instead - which is to just keep escalating!

*On that second date where I ended up sleeping with her, she said "I'm not having sex with you" about 5-6 times before we eventually did. All I did was say "ok" and carry on doing what I was doing regardless.

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Blondguy, you're doing it right. But the point with these sexualy shy or more closed girls is, is that, at least for me, when you force yourself to act very sexualy direct to a sexualy shy or closed girl, (and even more when she resist a couple of times), then you feel like a rapist.
Don't get me wrong. I can get very sexual to girls. But some girls respond differently to it. I can't behave horny or sexualy direct to every girl, and especialy not the sexualy shy ones. Maybe that's just something I should work on.
But if she acts a bit aloof or uncomfortable when you increase the tension, you feel like a rapist when you start talking about how horny she makes you feel, and how badly you want her to suck your cock.

And if you force yourself to act like rapist, you feel incongruent, which gives you feelings of resistance in yourself.

I think it's also more natural to say in this case that's she is not your type. The PU community expects us often to continue to the bitter end, but sometimes you have to make boundaries. If it annoys you that the girl keeps acting difficult, then that's her problem. Find an other girl who is more confident about her sexuality. Girls do this all the time, so there is no reason why guys can't do that.
If it makes you interested, or even super horny when a girl acts closed and awkward and gives you a lot of resistance when you raise the tension, then by any means go for it.

I don't see what's AFC about it. The thing you're doing actualy is letting go, and that's the opposite of being needy. Yes you say "I like you (BUT)", she already knows you like her: you ask her out, try to kiss her and lead her on.

_________________
You WANT to make a change.
You CAN make a change.
You WILL make a change.

Ambitious to be succesfull => Shyler

Read the quote again:
I didn't say force dirty talk down the throat of a woman who's clearly not horny and not into it. I didn't say shove your cock in her even when she says she REALLY REALLY doesn't want to and is very serious.

His problem is that the girl IS actually into it and DOES actually like him, but he keeps hesitating. I can see it. He actually said he's waiting for HER to move towards HIM.

This is because he's worried about what she's thinking. He's too focused on checking whether what he's doing is OK or not first.

Hesitation is deeply unattractive and immediately signals that the guy is not completely 100% confident. If you lead properly, there is no hesitation, and no time for her conscious mind to kick in and start questioning what's happening. This is what's called "sweeping her off her feet." You do not allow her to start analysing the situation. You just keep fucking going and she will follow.

You actually make a great point here:
This is excellent in the context of "sexual qualification." Something I've done to great effect (e.g. making a very reserved virgin who didn't want to sleep with me at all beg me to be her boyfriend and show up next time wearing lacy underwear and throw herself at me). You just say something like "you know, you're actually a really cool girl and I like that we really get on and can talk about shit and hang out. But, I gotta say, you're not really my type. Well, I mean you're cute and everything, but, I tend to attract girls who are really sexual, open-minded, and usually experienced or at least adventurous."

If she's into you at all, chances are, this essentially makes her want to prove to you how sexual she can be, which obviously plays right into your hands as you can take whatever she throws at you and keep escalating it further until you end up in bed naked

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This line will work even if you say it by itself. If the girl is showing IOI's but giving you any kind of resistance, saying this will frame yourself as a guy who has standards. Most women will respond by qualifying themselves to get your approval because they want you like them too.

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Pretty little girls, so used to getting your way. Along comes a man who challenges you, and suddenly you don't know what to say.

Just to make it clear, I'm not counting on her to make a move, that will get me nowhere, especially with her. I just need some cooperation that's all.

I see you're all unanimous about this so I'll go with "you're not really my type" and see how it goes. I'm supposed to use this playfully, right?

I am worried about what she's thinking, you're right. I still need to work on that.

She's been texting and calling since our last date but I've been pretty aloof. I'll set another date next weekend and see how it goes this time.

I'm going to just keep escalating from the very start while trying not to be so reactive or on the other hand feel like a rapist. If all fails I'm just going to be straight forward about this.

Thanks a lot everyone!

No. You say this actualy very seriously, when the time is there. When you feel annoyed by her not wanting to get to intimate again and again, then you can say, under the frame of "I've had enough of this bullshit", what Ryan and I gave as an example.

But don't say this under the frame "omg gotta try out this line I've heard it works!", no. You have to say it like you mean it. With other words: you must (kind of) like her, have fun with her and find her cute, but also think that you had enough of the bullshit and be realy willing to risk giving her up. It should come naturaly.

_________________
You WANT to make a change.
You CAN make a change.
You WILL make a change.

Ambitious to be succesfull => Shyler

But isn't this being reactive? If I act all pissed off (which I am) then she realizes she has this power over me and she can use it whenever she wants. Shouldn't I focus on making her more attracted and comfortable rather than make it a "big deal" and apply pressure?
I think I'm already doing this without being reactive. She knows what I'm after, and after freezing her out I think she gets the idea that I don't mind losing her (and I really don't) and that my time is valuable.

Thanks again.

When necessary apply female methods. Women are great in creating a really uncomfortable situation. You do the same.
Men of standard do not accept it when their girl acts up.
And more importantly: do you want to be with a girl that will use sex as a gift to you and something she will abstain from when she thinks she should punish you?

No, it's the other way round. Now she might be playing games with you, playing the good girl who doens't want to get intimate soon. If you fall for this trap, then she'll have the power over you. Before you know it, she is fucking a more confident guy. If you are confident enough to (risk) letting her go, then she will lose control over you. You don't have to act pissed off, you have to be in control. You actualy say "if you don't want to fuck, I'll next you for an other girl who does". Guess who's in control now?

But if you don't get this, you're not ready for it.
Stop thinking and start doing.

You're a guy. You're horny. You want to pleasure her. You want to satisfy your horniness. You go after what you want.
She is a human being. She is a sexual being. She wants it. She is begging you for it.

Go get her tiger.

_________________
You WANT to make a change.
You CAN make a change.
You WILL make a change.

Ambitious to be succesfull => Shyler

I gave that "line" as an example. The context in my situation was the the girl was a virgin from a very conservative upbringing who was completely resistant to the idea of sex with me, despite really liking me. In that situation, I thought "why should I actually bother trying to force my way into this girls panties when I could be fucking any of the other girls I'm seeing, or get a new one who's more sexually open." So I simply told her "hey listen, you're really cool and we get on, but I think it's better to be friends. I'm more into sexually open chicks and you're obviously looking for serious commitment which isn't really my thing, so I think it's better for both of us."

Now, the fact was I didn't care which way this went. She might have got offended and walked away. She might have agreed to the friendship. Either was fine. As it turned out, it made her want to prove to me that she was a sexual girl and so the next time I saw her she dressed super sexy for me and we ended up sleeping together.

How and why I said it came from a place of complete abundance and outcome detachment. I simply did not care. And, the way I said it was very nice. It was not angry, it was not super serious, and it was not as a reaction to anything she'd just done or said. It was purely as a way of putting it out there that it seemed like she was resistant to sex and I was not particularly gonna waste my time any longer trying to get anything from her, but that I would still like to be friends and I thought she was a cool person.

I would only bother going down this route as a last resort. If you've honestly and truly tried to properly escalate to sex with her multiple times (which I don't think you actually have yet) and she keeps resisting massively, but is plainly into you, then go ahead and drop the "I'm more into sexual girls, I guess we're really different so maybe we should just be friends" move. But don't come crying if she actually accepts your friendzone request. You have to not give a shit whichever way the cookie crumbles.

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I agree. If you think back, youd probably think of alof of times you should have done something, and never did.

Just do it. You know what you have to do

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