Wow, there are a lot of good points on this thread.

I first want to point out that I whole heartedly agree that both Direct and Indirect game is needed depending on the situation you find yourself in. One of the things that I also agree with that was previously mentioned was Direct Game definitely weeds people out pretty fast and it helps. Instead of being in the Indirect set to nowhere that you are trying to make hook for 20-30 minutes stacking material, you could be on to someone else in the limited time you have.

Direct game is certainly not easy. Attraction in most cases is "assumed" perhaps you picked up on an IOI or an approach indicator and you went in. It takes a lot of skill and confidence to pull off so you don't come off as overly needy or creepy.

Indirect game is great in certain applications when you are dealing with larger groups, and things of that nature. There is a lot to be said for allowing the girl to get to know you while you through those DHV spikes raising your value. There are times where this is the best way to get the girl who normally had you gone Direct you might not have obtained.

Bottom line is its all a judgement call. These are tools in your toolbox and nothing more. They are similar tools but sometimes the job calls for a phillips head screwdriver and sometimes it calls for a flathead. Pick the best tool for the job in your experience and get the girl!

Direct game works for multiple reasons:
1) It demonstrates confidence
2) It demonstrates vulnerability (you're putting yourself out there)
3) It shows dominance (you see something, you go get it)

You don't have to DHV or create attraction. You assume it. That's the core of direct game. And you don't have to worry about coming across as needy unless you actually are needy. You have nothing to hide, and you don't care if she rejects you. That is the essence of direct game. Very attractive. A lot of times that's the only attraction spike you need.

That said, it's situational.

Direct game doesn't always work during the night because the surprise factor doesn't really stand out because 1) the girl is getting hit on constantly, so you're just another guy in the crowd, and 2) even is she recognizes that you went direct, she may interpret your approach as a drunken attempt to get at her rather than a genuine act of confidence. This is where indirect comes in.

There's a place for direct, and there's a place for indirect. In my situation, living in Las Vegas, I have a ton of "leads to burn." However, that is only partially taken into consideration.

Here's how I game:

Before Midnight:
Indirect game. Use opinion openers, gain attraction.

After Midnight:
Direct game: Drunk girls that are DTF in Vegas are easier to pull when it starts getting late.

If you aren't that worried about value then why need to build it? But when it comes to direct game if you don't come in with a strong position then of course you need to build it up as the girl will see this. As JS mention in his post, direct game is not easy. You need a dominate sexual frame to really make direct game work, which ain't easy to do among other things. And I bet this is why the guys here that have tired it have failed. Most guys think direct game is simply walking up to a girl and telling her you want to fuck her, but they failed to realize there is more to it.
Actually I do, not in those exact words but within two sentences they have told me what they are selling and by then I hang up on them. But telemarketers are going to suck at direct game.

OK lets just cut to the chase. Anyone here consider themselves looks-wise below 8/10 and consistently pick up HB8's and above using purely direct game???

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I'm probably an 8/10 and I almost always go direct, and only on the best 2 or 3 looking girls in the bar, or on the street.

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Even the most naturally gifted can learn to become better.

I don't pick up HB*+ consistently but I am able to pick them up. I use it because I find it works better for me than indirect game, especially in bars and what have you. I consider my self at best a 7. I know I am not ugly but I am not hot either, the only real thing I have going for me is my height physically. The height helps but I find being cocky and funny with a sexual dominate frame works quite well as well as oozing confidence. I am not saying indirect game sucks as it doesn't, I actually use it when needed as there are social environments where one should not use direct game. But when it comes to night game and even day game to an extent I find it works for me

in my opinion, both are equal. The reall thing that we should base our descision of direct or indirect are girls and all girls are not same so we really cant decide whats better. I would say, it depends on the situation and your sense of game plus experience. Anyone who is experienced would agree that to
do the direct approach when you know your target would be gone within minuter or when you feel you dont have that much time for example target is going towards a cab.
In rest of the situations its better to open indirectly with a situational opener or something like that and after 2 to 3 minutes in, if you feel like the target is opened for direct game , you can switch to direct game or continue with in direct. These descisions are made in reall situations with calibration and every situation is usually different. So we cnt really say anything. Another method that me and khuram came up with is, "open indirect and go direct"

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i have left this forum. You can follow me and khuram at (mod edited)

I'm with vicparkguy on this, I like to go slightly indirect, establish a bit of rapport and THEN go direct.

A good example of this, albeit on holiday and therefore it's maybe a slightly different situation. There were 3 girls, two HB8.5's and one HB6, sat around the pool at our hotel EVERY day, they spoke to noone and kept themselves to themselves. One day then decided to have a swim. Me and my mates were playing with a ball in the pool, and the ball kept going by them, I jokingly said that they should stand still and be a ballboy, to which they laughed. I then opened them, and literally within 5 minutes we were talking about their favourite sex positions, whether they use sex toys, whether they like oral etc etc.. they were REALLY receptive. BUT they said, because everyone who had tried to speak to them had been sleasy, really forward and false, they didn't have anything to do with anyone up until that point.

They then came out with us that evening, and I f-closed one.

My point is, in some situations I think going ultra-direct can be a set-back, especially if it's a group set.

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A lot of girls run into this with guys that want one night stands and don't realize there is bit of an art (well I think it is) to open sexual with a girl.
Agreed. I never go over the top when I go direct, as one there is no need to, and two I find using sexual innuendo's far better or doing "cliff hangers", in other words leaving the girl hanging, work better.

A very interesting topic! Maybe this is a good place to ask for some advice:

I found out about this PUA stuff some weeks ago, but have been trying to improve my game by myself for about ~2,5 year, somewhat succesful. I have read some stuff about PUA but never actually applied any of the stuff since I feel like I have to start from 0 and get rejected alot, instead of just using my 'natural game' that is somewhat succesful. In the last year I have been getting more succesful, but feel like I have hit a wall. Here's my problem:

I usually try to pick up women at big parties / clubs with loud music, and always go for a direct opener (always after eyecontact is held for like 2 sec). I don't mind being rejected a few times (I only mind when I haven't k closed a girl by the end of the night). I don't have any routines or a game plan when I approach (I think my problem lies here). I usually think of something to say when I move towards her (sometimes I just end up saying like 'hey whats your name'). I can usually tell if they've hooked by how they respond (big smile / turning towards me). If I feel like they've hooked, I try to convey confidence (or cocky when I'm comfortable/drunk haha) untill I feel like I've built enough comfort and have gotten some IOI's. Depending on how strongly I feel they like me, I either go for a # or a kiss. If I feel like they haven't hooked (after ~2-3mins), I bail.

Lately I usually end up succesfully gaming at least 1 girl by the end of the night, somewhere between HB 6,5 and 7,5. However, with my recent succes (and confidence built by gaming hb 6,5 - 7,5) I have been challenging myself to succesfully game HB8+, which I haven't been able to do so far.

So at my last party, I have been approaching HBs 8+, and I notice a huge difference in AA. After working up some courage and attempting some eye contact, (I try to hide building up courage by staying at a distance and by acting I haven't noticed them yet) I do my approach much like I would with HB 6,5 - 7,5. However, I found them responding far less receptive. I can get some (fun) chatter going, but their body language tells me they are not really into me and I can't seem to reach the 'hook point'. On this particular party, I usually spent about 2-3 minutes before ejecting. At that point they still didn't hook, and I really didn't have anything fun or interesting left to say. It would just turn into an interview at that point. They just wouldn't hook, the chatter was funny, but their body language wouldn't open up.

What advice can you guys give me? I feel like my game is working on HB 6,5-7,5 but not on more attractive women. I need to change something so I can reach that hook point. If I reach the hook point, I start feeling comfortable and start conveying confidence and fun.

Do I need to switch to indirect openers? Should I try to develop some routines for my direct opener? I prefer using direct openers, since I have grown some comfort and experience with it over the last ~3 years. I have practically no experience with indirect openers.

P.s.: It's hard to rate myself, but I think I'm about ~7/10 on looks. I'm pretty tall so that helps alot. (1.94m)

My formula too. At least by doing so, the girl can learn a bit about your personality and remember you hopefully as more than just a random guy who chatted her up, especially if you are a noob cold approaching in the day.

Just for the recrod, Las Vegas is probably the only place in the world (certainly one of a few) where I would do night game! Your post explains why perhaps.

Me!

There's so many misconceptions surrounding Direct vs Indirect on here that I definitely want to take some time to go through some of them.

(1) Indirect allows you to "build attraction" before you escalate / get her number, Direct will only work if she's already attracted.

FALSE: If she would never be interested, then no amount of attraction building routines will do anything other than extend your interaction by 30 minutes until you receive the inevitable "I have a boyfriend." Being direct the right way will actually create a massive attraction spike in any girl that would ever be interested, plus if they're not they'll tell you right away AND still respect you and likely thank you for being honest, to the point and confident.

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IMO,

Indirect when the girl is attracted ( you got a ioi) = lame

Direct in social circle = lame


Now, in a nightclub on girls you don't know, without ioi from her; It all depends of you. I never liked indirect opener. I only use situational and direct.