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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 11:53 am 
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Now, I understand that I'm posting on a forum for aspiring pick-up-artists. I know that aspiring players - myself included - are very idealistic, imaginative, dreamy - we are told, very eloquently, that the Game is a way out, a way to change from our stiflingly mediocre selves and achieve a crazy, vibrant, new life which is universally attainable, though even the most dedicated MPUAs seem strangely unable to fully achieve (read The Game, does Mystery ever get his two bisexual girlfriends?).

But I'd like to make it clear that I really think highly of the whole phenomenon overall. The idea of men actually getting together to talk about how to be better with women is something which must be just unprecedented on this scale in history. The community has transformed from one centred completely around the (big words coming up) messianic quasi-spiritual rote-learning of Ross Jeffries, to the more holistic but still very routine-based game of Mystery, to the strange mix of styles, egos, voices, marketing, influences, locations and so on which characterise it today. Its pull is quite amazing - which fifteen year old boy doesn't google "how to pick up girls" and come along Neil Strauss at some stage?

The messages are heard by scores of the most malleable, vulnerable and insecure male minds every day. Millions of men (boys?) are wooed by the flashy banners, taglines, promotions and acronyms. I'm eighteen now, and I've experienced the PUA community as a single guy and someone in a relationship. We have a responsibility to try to improve the lives of these men, because the footprint of our massive men's movement is huge.

I'm still learning, and at the moment I've entered a relationship with a girl I'm attracted to and respect more than any girl I have before. So naturally at the moment I want to keep her. I was reading about the PUA thoughts on maintaining a happy, healthy relationship, and I'm going to put it out there, a lot of it was misogynistic bullshit, and I'm not saying that from the point of view of a smitten, one-itis prone newbie, which I have been in the past. I'm saying that from the point of view of a rational, well-meaning guy. I mean there was stuff like "you have to train your woman like you would your bitch". Personally, if there was a woman who would enjoy hearing that, I wouldn't want to meet her.

I read good stuff, but even amongst that, there was an underlying selfish, patronising vibe. It was like: How do I get her into threesomes? How do I keep the upper hand? How do I have multiple girlfriends? Now, I understand that these are legitimate concerns for someone who wants that sort of lifestyle. But this is a whole extra level from a fluffy bit of pea-cocking, alpha-male attitude at the bar. This is about wanting to psychologically change a woman into obedience, changes and a new life. It's absolutely against my moral code.

When you think about it, the PUA community has the potential to breed terrible people. No wonder - the training ground for romance is the bar and the club. The pre-requisites for a good woman are how good looking and how sexually charged she is. (I mean we put numbers on them!) The end game is always sex. And on top of that, every single MPUA wants to sell you his product - he sees you as a customer, not a student. Maybe our priorities are wrong - maybe you can't structure your social life like you can a business or sports team. Maybe PUA is too far gone to change, and it will fail in its mission of making us better men.

But it doesn't have to be like that. As challenging as it can be to learn to seduce women, maybe we need to throw a few more challenges in voluntarily. What are they? I'm not completely sure, I'm talking straight from my imagination here. My ideas would be to never treat women like a commodity. Never to fall into the trap of bitterness over someone treating you horribly, and letting yourself lose your trust in women. To realise that beyond all this posturing, all this talk of demigod alpha males, social domination, there are principles to which all men should hold themselves. Kindness. Respect for other men. Listening to women, not just because you want to learn their trance words, but because you can accept that a lot of the time, women know exactly what they want, and they know exactly how to communicate it. The ability to accept defeat, to accept that you're wrong, to accept that, this time, you shouldn't use a Boyfriend Destroyer just to nab a hottie. The unapplauded, unappreciated, unprecedented inner drive to do the right thing by other people at a basic level is something all PUAs ought to have, even if it means they will sleep with 100 women in their lives instead of 200.

I'd also like to offer a correction to official lore. I know that David DeAngelo would tell you "attraction is not a choice" - that's true. But it doesn't matter how much you change externally, no woman will ever leave you happy if you're a hateful person deep down. The most poignant, and least appreciated line I've heard in all my readings and practicing, is "leave her better than you found her". I am racked with guilt over some things I've done in the past two years with girls. PUAs need to be decent people first, everything else second. This is the lesson nobody will teach us but ourselves, and it's always saddened me to read about people who could have been anything becoming complete arseholes in the name of PUA.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 3:59 am 
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"Leave her better than you found her"

I follow that like it was an 11th commandment whispered personally to my ear.

I refuse to outright lie or string along a female about where and what my feelings are towards her. I'm glad that I have proof that others do exist with the same outlook towards it as I do. As much as I respect such "Masters" as Mystery and the sort. I do as well worry that males or even females for that matter will get the wrong impression about what this all really is in the core.

David DeAngelo was always one of my favorite to watch and learn from. I feel the way he attempts to teach his work has a positive aspect. Not once did I hear him refer to a female in a demeaning manner (something Gambler is notorious for). David at least seems to provide morals with his work and not just some sleazy doucher. His work seems to be more based around strengthening the foundation on the foundation on which you stand rather than making the outside look pretty.

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Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards. -Soren Kierkegaard
A woman brought you into this world, so you have no right to disrespect one - Tupac


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 11:39 am 
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I was starting to lose faith in this community but this put a smile on my face. I dont agree with "MPUA's" leading young eager minds into thinking women are objects. Ego's are running whild out there and arrogants isn't teaching people anything. Iv always been curious what happens to these "irresistable assholes" that want to date a girl after the pick up. They have game for pick up. DHV routines, negs, and palm reading is only interesting for so long. What happens when they have to take off the mask and show who they really are. Is this why they treat girls like toys? Their not that interesting after you break through the sleezy pick up artist shield. Also have mad respect for David DeAngelo he hit it on the head.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 8:43 pm 
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agreed , agreed


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 3:04 am 
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Very good now is time to get good at relationship get tony robbins ultimate relationship guide!!!!!!! Being in a relationship different ball game all together, good post!

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 6:44 am 
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Website: http://www.cardatemovie.com
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I would first like to say hello and introduce myself. My name is Lacy (male) and i think PU is an art form. Sure you might run into the assholic guy who just wants to figure out how to get laid by playing tricks with womens mind but there are also gentleman out there who just want to learn a few tips so hopefully they can have success. I myself consider myself a gentleman and have decided that treaing women with respect and making them feel comfortable gets you to the bedroom even quicker than throwing in a few negs and lines. I have to admit that i may use lines here and there but it is only to get a conversation started. I am so interested in PU that i actually made a movie about it. I spent 6,000 to make it and it has been an experience that has changed my life in a positive manner. Now if you looked at my site you will see that my date takes place in a car with two porn stars but the truth is i treated these women with respect throughout the entire process and that is why i did so well with the,. So i must say that to me PUArtistry for me is a game you play in hopes to get a chance at meeting and having great relationships. Even though my movie does cost money to rent i made this movie to introduce my game to the world and show that a it can be done in a classy tasteful way. YES i do play some games but you can also see how nicely i treat these women. If you would like to take a look at my creation, my movie then feel free to check it out. I do believe it may help some people who are looking for a solution on how to get a date going. The film is titled "Car Date" and you can rent it in the iTunes movie store or go to my site and see the trailer free. I havent posted 5 times so i cant put my website on here but hopefully you will be able to read this link clearly

car date movie dot com . I look forward to having many chats with all of you in many sections of the forum. Thank you for allowing me to be part of this website


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 7:00 am 
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good post, alot of good points, but most guys could argue a different point and still take the side that they are passionate about women and only want to make them feel good, if women like to submit and we try to obtain compliance how is that mysogynistic?


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:01 am 
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great post, i agree with so much you said.

the only one thing is everyone has a different belief system and moral coding, it seems abit harsh to make judgements on people who are completely different from you.

For example i live in South Africa and in the Zulu culture they have many wives, our president has 8 him self. although you may not agree with this it is the way it is.

some people have fantasies of 3ways and other things is it so bad for these people to get what they want, whats the point of anything if you cant strive to have your dreams and fantasies.

also there are some people who would want to meet the girl you said you wouldnt want to meet. its all really preference, upbringing, culture and morals (which will normally derive from religion)

im not taking a stab at you bud and i think what you said is great and some of your points are 100% spot on just not everyone is the same (thankfully) :P


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 2:45 pm 
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Agreed.

I think part of the problem is that when you're a newbie you go out a lot and open many sets, and of course you get rejected a lot which turn into negative feelings, and you see I used the word "set" and we call them "targets" etc which is dehumanizing... a lot of the guys here are young, early 20s or even younger which is a problem.

Also something I just realized it that "gaming" many times will result in guys ending up with problematic party chicks because most sarging takes place in bars and clubs... and lets face it, most normal healthy chicks don't go out as much to these places. So the relationships which most guys will end up with (short term relationships anyway) will be with these problematic chicks and then we develop this hatred towards women because we think that they are all like that.

Anyway, interesting discussion.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:09 pm 
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My philosophy was put to the test recently - the amazing girlfriend I was talking about broke up with me! It was always a possibility - we didn't see each other much, she's a virgin, she was quite apprehensive of sex and I don't think she was ever quite sure about how she felt about me. At first I couldn't believe it - we'd gone from so close a few days before to her telling me she wanted to end it. I've known this girl for a long time, and I couldn't believe it at first - I tried rather ignobly to reignite old passions at the party we were both at the next night, but she's pretty adamant, despite still seeming really comfortable around me, that it's over, at least for now.

People might say I got friend zoned because I was too passive - but that's crap. I escalated smoothly when I got the opportunity, stayed honest to my desires, running into barriers of course, but I respected them and we still had a lot of fun. Just making out at a club one night was nearly the hottest experience I've had with a girl, because we seemed to gel so much. I talked to her and connected with her on an open level over the phone and in person. In the end, you can say I spent two months not getting laid - but again, this is the simplistic interpretation from the idiot in me who likes generalising about women. Rather, in the end, I enjoyed a whole range of new experiences with someone I really cared about, and I emerged from them a different person. A slightly sexually frustrated person, maybe, but not a bitter person.

Now I know so much more about the kind of woman I like, and how to attract her. I can look back at my mistakes (and believe me, I can pinpoint them) and not make them again in the future. I'm free to party a bit instead of building a relationship - and people really need to do this at some stage. And I've found even more to love (and groan) about the opposite sex.

But back to the topic:
Quote:
good post, alot of good points, but most guys could argue a different point and still take the side that they are passionate about women and only want to make them feel good, if women like to submit and we try to obtain compliance how is that mysogynistic?
Sure, many women enjoy being submissive. Men are attractive if they act in a powerful way. But think back to high school. There were two kinds of "powerful" males - the socially well-connected, attractive, enjoyable ones and the bullies. The difference is whether you choose not to take advantage of your power to hurt people, which is in itself a very weak, insecure and unhealthy way to be, or to limit your power just somewhat in order to be a good person overall. It's not that hard - just don't be a cunt. (As they say here in Australia)

Simbachippie I'm talking from a Western standpoint here, I can't speak for different cultures, and threesomes are definitely in some girls' repertoire. So I understand people are different to me.

And phangan I absolutely agree with what you said. It's probably important to realise that clubs and bars are just a game, and getting rejected there doesn't mean much beyond girls going "He doesn't turn me on, I don't want to sleep with him tonight". I think some other avenues such as daygame or (shock horror) just meeting girls through friends of friends would be a good detox for some disaffected club type guys who are used to the problematic party chicks.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 7:51 pm 
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I agree with you on the account of drawing certain lines and having principles. I have asked myself if what I am doing is right on many occasions. Having this kind of knowledge and skill set is like having more power over people - there is nothing wrong with PUA in itself, it is what you DO with the skills.
Knowing all this PUA stuff is like owning a gun - you can use it for good, or you can use it to do bad stuff.


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