sure his techniques are a little dated, abstract and gimmicky( i dont use any of them) but his concepts are rock solid.

his m3 model is still one of the most useful things in my game. i dont even follow it or try and think about it however during all of my pick ups i will some how be able to relate back to it and realize that i did infact follow it. its biggest flaw in my opinion is that it doesnt clarify that you dont always start at the very beginning. sometimes you start at the end and all you have to do is lay her, sometimes you start half way through when she already likes you enough to want to qualify herself and impress you, but thats were calibration comes into effect.

his m3 model is a sequential chart of events that WILL happen in pick up, some methods accelerate each event, some use different techniques to make similar results, but every pick up follows that model.

im not a mystery fan boy, i just cant deny that he laid out the ground work for every social interraction with the opposite sex.

his m3 model is as close to linear as pickup can get.

No, they're not.

His concepts deteriorate your inner game so, in the long run, you get worse. Also, his techniques take some time to get the hang of so, in the short run, you get worse.
No, it's not.

It's a chart of events that a typical socially conditioned male might logically conclude what will happen in pickup.
No, most do not.

Only the copycats who jumped on the MM bandwagon follow that model.
No, he did not.

Do you see interactions with women as inherently adversarial? Go see a shrink.
And that's one of the many, many problems with it.

Chief,

what is better than the Mystery Method?

I am amateur PUA, have read the MM, and I find most part very useful. I am not familiar with the other techniques. I am curious!

The fact that you are an amateur and find it usefull it's the reason it sucks.The method was created for that,it's too mainstream.In my opinion you should try everything,but start at the beginning so you can build up in time.Search for openings and try out everything,that will give you the motivation to just go on.After that,just lurk on the forum and search for posts from Chief,Hobbit and others who are legit.
good luck!

What is this "inner game" exactly? I'm sorry if this is a bit rich but the trend at least on this forum is that the guys busy chatting and teaching their "inner game POWAH" are frequently the guys getting laid the least AND..

Populate 9/10's of the PUA sub-group I like to call "Fucked in the head".

I'm not convinced that PU "inner-game" is any less damaging than old school PU "outer game".

inner game is just the most important thing about all this stuff.

First you have to become the person you want to be in your head in order to really be able to game!
Fake it till you make it? NOT

His concepts deteriorate YOUR inner game? Mine? Everyone? Not really . . .
Had you gotten into PU at 26 instead 12, you'd have a different opinion.
To this I'd say that it's uncanny how certain aspects of his model always seem to be factor in most success stories that show up on this forum. Of course if you've already established a few of the milestones through a controlled environment or pre-existing social structure, etc . . you wouldn't need to go through every step. I'm sure he wouldn't either.

In general, nothing is ever really that great nor is it ever really that bad.

I'm new here and to the pua community so i might be horribly wrong... But aint mystery method mostly focused on beeing comfident?
And if you open a set dont only talk to the target but keep the friend entertained to? Atleast untill you can isolate the target... Whats wrong in with that :S? Sounds pretty damn legit tbh couse i can often see girls go away from a guy she likes after seeing how boored the friend is..

Also i've heard loads of bad stuff about "the pick up artist" show with mystery but from what i can tell it seems verry legit :/? Have comfidence, get some jewelry and stuff to peacock(spelling?), talk over the shoulder and stuff... I keep reading that mm is awsome and then shortly after i read that its crap... Can someone please tell me what is crap and what is good with it? And if mm is so bad then what's the good stuff called so i can read up on that ?

I disagree.

Since I go direct initially, all my "success stories" fundamentally BEGIN at what M3 model would call A3, since I'm OPENING by telling her I'm attracted to her (which M3 followers would spend hours KJing about saying how I'm telegraphing my interest TOO SOON and I'll blow myself out because she has all the cards or some stupid shit).

If you go very sexually direct on a girl in a club and you know she is DTF that night, guess what? You don't need to build any kind of extended comfort at all, completely bypassing most of C1-C3.

And we all know the 7 hour rule is completely ridiculous!

So, this nice linear structure sure looks pretty on paper, but it doesn't actually make any sense!

Other ridiculous assumptions that hurt guys in the long run

- She starts out higher value than her and you have NEG her to knock her down a peg. Really? You don't have your own sense of self worth, so you have to make her feel inferior to get the upper hand in the interaction? With a girl you barely know anything about that you just met?

- Being indirect. You have to HIDE your true intentions when you come up to her and invent an excuse to start a platonic conversation, and WAIT AROUND hoping to see enough IOIs from her before it's OK to actually express that you like her. WHY??? This is teaching guys to NOT have the balls to say what they really think, to WAIT around and be worrying if she likes them and if it's ok to hit on them yet!

This is huge because so much of the questions on here come from this mentality of FEAR of rejection, which this feeds right into. "HOW DO I MAKE 100% SURE SHE DEFINITELY LIKES ME AND I WON'T GET REJECTED IF I HIT ON HER?" Guess what? You CAN'T! Having the balls to just tell her she's hot, and attempt to LEAD her towards sex confidently, from the position of ASSUMING attraction (rather than thinking you need to build it) is far more powerful.

- Routines / DHV Stories / Negs. All of this shit creates some of THE most socially awkward weirdos on the planet. Not even gonna get into how much the NEG is misunderstood and misapplied, or how many ridiculous DHV stories involving stripper ex girlfriends are concocted for the sake of guys trying to appear "high value." A guy lacking in social skills with very uncomfortable body language, terrible fashion and few friends, walks up and starts delivering lines that were written for the type of guy that is a suave, sophisticated club promoter type who's often surrounded by hot women and has high status in that environment and, guess what, the girls see RIGHT THROUGH IT and just laugh at him!

It's not his fault, he's just trying to use the routines like the book told him. The problem is he has no idea that it's not the LINES, but the WAY they're delivered that matters. Over his long journey, he finally finds some material that starts working for him and opening and hooking sets (because it's congruent with his personality), but hits that brick wall - the routines are just a patch over the top of the same needy, value sucking AFC he always was. However far he gets, maybe even a few lays under his belt, girls start to notice pretty quick that this isn't the same cocky-funny, aloof sounding alpha badboy type his words and actions over the course of that evening might suggest. The M3 model has NO actual METHOD for consistently breaking down people's social anxiety and actually building their outward confidence from WITHIN.


Along my journey, I can honestly say the M3 model never once got me laid. Getting into this stuff helped a lot of other factors - going to the gym, getting better clothes, thinking about social dyanamics, going out a lot and opening, absolutely. But, having that ridiculous model in the back of my mind, always wondering when the next step was, if it was OK to show interest yet, if it was ok to touch her yet, etc. only ever held me back! It wasn't until I ditched the whole thing and started being unashamedly direct that I started getting proper results, and that's why I'd encourage anyone starting out to STAY AWAY from the mystery method and pick a guy to learn from who doesn't cloak pickup in obscure jargon, complicated models and a veneer of scientific research, but instead just focuses plain and simply on the mindset of being a MAN, and confidently and unashamedly expressing yourself and your desires authentically. Then you don't need any fancy lines and routines, because it all just flows naturally from you because it's who you ARE.

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Have you even read the inner game forums? Those kids and their instructors are a fucking joke!

The MM guys improve and get laid alot more than most of the PUA mentality brigade because they have structure. They sit down and go "Ok today I'm going to approach a girl and do XYZ in the hope of outcome ABC."

AFC-Daniel while not MM (and that's largely a good thing) has progressed massively here because he has almost exclusivly avoided idiots giving him the spool. "Just believe Daniel... you had the power to be a MAN in you all along!"

Fin,if your point is that MM is better than nothing than your right.Blondguy is simple telling you that it;s stupid to learn something that ruins us in the long run,and there are much easier ways to do it.In his case,going direct.I tried the MM model but didn't really work for me.I feel that it's build for people being drones in stead of figuring out stuff from themselfs.And the same as a lot of stupid products being sold to americans,it works![/img]http://www.demotivationalposters.org/ma ... 9.html[img]

I think the MM method was great for beginning. And I think thats still why it is taught. for these beginners.

So dont hate, we were all beginners once and found it very useful.

It doesnt teach inner game at all, no. But I think through experience we learn this eventually, and then go on to try and find what the whole inner game concept is for ourselves. This is the best way to learn although it may take longer, is better in the long run.

The only problem I see with MM is just not knowing when to convert, and how to explain to the people who use it to convert onto other styles so they can expand and grow - they might need guidance, however they should learn on their own eventually.

Just taking a few beneficial principals, terminology and ides you learnt from the MM to take the rest of the way with you on your path of experience.

Ryan, there seems to be a disconnect between the method vs. your ability to comprehend and execute the method. How many different ways can you communicate to another, "I am interested in you?" It seems you favor, "I am interested in you." Verbally communicating these words are one of many different ways to demonstrate what's in your heart. You say it's 'direct' . . .I agree, but it's also the CHEAPEST and in my mind, the lowest level of communicating your interest. It requires the least amount of energy, effort, creativity, thought, or ACTUAL INTEREST. You say it's honest. I say it's usually the cheapest form of a lie.

What would you rather have?

1. A guy who tells you that he's "your best buddy" all the time or a guy who shows up when you need to move your apartment and helps you out?

2. A girl who tells you that she's interested in you or a girl who shuts up and sticks her tongue down your throat?

3. A facebook "happy birthday" or a girl who takes time to back you a batch of cookies?

4. A girl who texts you "You're cool" or one who comes over and takes interest in your hobby?

On and on and on . . . This is REAL interest vs. a bunch of cheap words. If you can understand this, it will change all facets of your life.

7 hour rule, with a complete stranger, and in the type of setting that Mystery refers to, usually makes A LOT of sense, if not for the actual time needed, just to give the typical guys some reason to relax and play the game out.

And again, nothing is ever that bad or ever that great . . .

But my point is that the structure isn't actually what's helping. In the SHORT TERM guys get results simply because they're pushing themselves to go out and talk to women more, that's it. The structure itself is, as I just explained, not even useful or right in itself, and it leads to the instilling of negative and harmful beliefs over the long term.

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oh look its THIS thread again