Not sure if this is the right board for this post. If not, let me know and I'll gladly move it to another.

Let me start out by saying that, although I don't post very often, I love reading some of the information and insights that you all post, as they have provided substantial learning opportunities for myself and others. The following post is a bit of a long one, but bear with me!

Now my current situation is a good old fashioned challenge. I have hung out with this HB8.5 on two separate occasions, all in social settings. After the first night (a Thursday), she came back to my place, a lot of kissing and a lot of talking, but no F-Close at her insistence. A few days after that, I sent her a message saying that I had a great night and looked forward to seeing her again.

We ended up going out together again this past Friday (8 days after the initial) and had another great time. It was at a bar, but we were able to do a lot of talking and really started to learn about each other on a personal level. Funny thing is that at first she was acting sort of moody and deliberately told me about 2 guys that she is seeing. I froze her out, talked to her friend that was with her and started gaming other girls in the bar. Because of that, she started doing that attention whore thing that girls do when they aren't your focus. I playfully called her a brat, began kinoing again and she was eating from the palm of my hand for the rest of the night. We went back to her place, layed in bed talking and, although the kissing got really intense (at one point I thought she was going to have the "big O" just from kissing -- why yes, I am THAT good ), she still insisted on no sex and not sleeping together, meaning I had to leave at 6am. She also talked a lot about the other two guys that she goes on dates with occasionally (both are apparent AFCs and one is already giving her a cheesy pet name)Despite these possible transgressions, the night went ended well from my vantage point... She seemed to be hooked, started using rhetoric that implies she's thinking of an 'us' situation, and enjoyed herself. We made plans to have dinner at this restaurant that we've both wanted to try for Monday night (3 days after the day 2).

Today, I messaged her saying that I had a better idea and would cook for her tomorrow (Monday) night instead (DHV? I know my around a kitchen!) of going out to eat. She is yet to respond 5 hours later, but I'm not really worried about that. My 2 concerns are as follows:

1. I haven't been able to F-Close yet. Should I be beating myself up over this? This is part of the reason why I canceled going out to eat and instead offered to stay in for a more romantic experience. What stops would you pull out tomorrow evening to ensure that it ends well?

2. I need to blow out the competition. They are both chumps, but she has indicated that she is looking for a serious relationship and I've been honest with her in saying that "ultimately I think we are all looking for someone serious, but I want to take things slow and continue building this great connection that we have together." She also knows that I'm seeing other people (2 F-Closes with 2 different girls between Days 1 & 2) My game has been good so far (by no means perfect; I see where I could have improved at times), but it hasn't been good enough to "crack" that barrier of hers, or the competition. My concern is that the competition seems to be moving fast and if I keep taking my time and being methodical, I'm going to miss my shot. What would you do? Keep playing it cool and relaxed, or up the ante?

How old are you two? You sound like adults, are you in your mid 20s and have jobs, regular lives, social lives etc? I'm assuming neither of you are virgins or new to the dating world at all?

From your description it sounds like you are doing fine and making forward progress. Your description of her also sounds as if she is pretty self-aware and is able to communicate her objectives and wishes well too.

If everything is as it sounds, you two are both competent and confident, consenting adults. You sound like each of you are sane, sober adults who are each in charge of your own sexualities and niether of you are being played, coerced or manipulated by the other. That is a good thing and a good place to be.

Just keep getting to know each other and respect each other and let nature take it's course. You sound like you are coming from positions of equality and so in the end, nothing is going to take place magically here. There is no silver PUA bullet that is going to magically drop her drawers and there is nothing that is going to magically make you fall madly in love with her and make you turn all spineless and AFC.

You are consenting adults and while people do get carried away in the heat of the moment sometimes, she sounds like she is not some flake or dingbat and she will make a conscious decision on whether she wants to continue seeing you or fucking you or not and you will make a conscious decision on how you want to treat her and whether you will continue to date her or not.

Others may have some other specific advice but things all sounds normal and healthy to me.

Solid post, my friend. Thank you for that. I sometimes need to remind myself that patience is a virtue.

As for the age question, we are both in our mid to early twenties and we are both 3Ls in the same law school.

No, you shouldn't be beating yourself up over not fucking some gal after only seeing her twice. What may cause you a little trouble here is you are basically setting a trap. She doesn't sound naive and she has stated up front she is looking for LTR material. If she smells this is a set up, she'll bail and rightfully so. She had agreed to the dinner and now you changing up the playing field to try to seduce her. I'm not saying it's bad necessarily and it may work but it may also set off warning bells and red flags for her.
You are danger of appearing incongruent. She spelled out she is looking for an LTR and you danced around that with some fancy courtroom lawyer play on words. You said you are wanting to take things slow and build the connection but in reality you working hard and have a clear objective of getting her in the sack on date three. This = incongruency between words and actions and she could possibly even see this as manipulative.

I'm thinking you should either go direct and set it all in a sexual frame and be upfront that you are not interested in a monogamous serious relationship now. Or cool your jets and play this out by 'dating' and building more comfort and rapport.
Again, shit or get off the pot. This gal isn't some drunk dingbat in a bar. She sounds like the real deal and has a pair of her own. You aren't going to be able to bullshit her and she will respect you more if you don't try. She has been upfront and honest with you and has played hardball, show her the respect by doing the same.

Either go direct and try to play her out and be honest about what you want and where you want things to go or go tit for tat with her and let her play you out and see where she wants things to go with you.

You have called these other guys chumps and AFCs. I gotta newsflash for you, most decent adult women ultimately pick the AFC nice guys over the players. They get played out and don't fall for parlor tricks anymore. Now they may choose to take some playa up on his offer for a hook-up now and then because they choose to but they don't fall for his tricks.

You have a worthy opponent here, but you will loose if you look at her as an advosary. Your best bet is to give her the respect she deserves and demand she gives you the same respect and you both work together for common ground.

Ok, that's what I thought.

We were crossposting and I see now where I got the idea you were making too much of a lawyer play on words.- You're not gonna be able to do that with this gal.


You are going to have to be true to yourself and honest with her. I get the feeling this gal may be solid and that you may think so too but you're letting your hormones be doing the thinking for you.

Don't get so caught up in "game" that you do something dumb. Be yourself and be honest and maybe you two are on the same sheet of music.

Another solid post.
This has crossed my mind today, especially since she hasn't responded yet.

For what it's worth, my objective is to always wind up in the sack. She played the game well by staying strong on days 1 and 2, and now my interest has grown. But that objective has by no means disappeared.... It's now just part of a list of objectives.
Great point. I'll have to see how the night goes, I suppose.

[quote="GATA"]
For what it's worth, my objective is to always wind up in the sack. She played the game well by staying strong on days 1 and 2, and now my interest has grown. But that objective has by no means disappeared.... It's now just part of a list of objectives.

[quote]

That's fair. That's very fair in fact.

The good news is she wants to end up in the sack too but she also has a list of objectives. She wants the whole package and sexuality is part of the package. She has already established herself as a sexual being and that there is some sexual chemistry and attraction here. If she wants the whole package, that is her birth right, as it is yours as well.

It's OK to be sexual and to have sexuality be a component of your 'relationship." The only unknowns here are at what point in time and under what circumstances does she spread her legs and how much of the "list of objectives" are you wanting to buy off on.

If you admire, respect and like this gal and want other things from her, don't blow it by behaving like all you want from her is a piece of poontang. If you want the whole package, be a man and pursue the whole package. Pontang is part of that package.

If all you want is the poontang, then pursue that but save yourself and her from a lot of associated grief by being upfront and honest that that is all you want. As long as each of you know where the other stands then noone has room to bitch about anything.