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Socrates, Jesus, Martin Luther King would all argue that there is only one set of moral truths across all cultures. Each culture goes about doing the same thing in different ways. Example: Hindus don't eat cows because it is murder. Christians don't murder people. Hindus believe cows are spirits of people. Universal moral truth -- do not murder.
If we have enough power to manipulate women to get the pussy -- we are in violation of two immoral acts.
#1) we are selfishly getting what we want from the women because we believe she wants it to. We are devaluing her choice, because we say "She is illogical and emotional" Therefore we can choose for her, using routines, and we don't feel bad.
We should respect a woman’s choice even if it's irrational. If we sell ourselves, to a women, using gimmicks and "pitches" we won't feel like she feel in love with the true person we are. We can rationalize and say there's nothing wrong with spicing up the way I present myself.
Murder and sex are two somewhat different things though aren't they? I have already made my point about how sex is seen in the Far East as well as in ancient Western religions such as the Teutons (Frey, Freya - Gods of fertility, therefore SEX), Venus, Aphrodite (Roman and Greek goddesses of love, beauty and sex), in fact there's a whole list of them here:
http://wuzzle.org/cave/lovegods.html
Whats my point? Sex is not immoral, yes these peoples did have questionable practices but I really don't see holding fertility in reverance as one of them.
We do NOT manipulate women to get pussy. No matter what, be it a one night stand or a relationship, I must always enjoy the company of a girl or her personality before I take her home, it would be manipulative if I didn't care either way. Also she wouldn't come into our bedrooms if she didn't want sex. You talk as if we learn to get good with women then abuse them.
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Although, some PUA’s lose there identity in the array of spices they use to interact with women. They forget who they where, and they become nothing but PUA. Example: Style & Mystery. Style says,"I spent my whole life being a virgin". He doesn't believe he has anything of value to a women. He doesn't believe in being "himself" because he doesn't believe in anything they possess to be of value without spicing it up a little.
Sure! Spicing it up can be nice when you don't communicate well with others, but when you become nothing but a spice rack fit to match each girl, you lose yourself.
It's like constantly gauging a girl we are with to determine if she likes the spice I am using. This PUA mentality will not enable me to "be myself". It is fundamentally flawed.
I don't believe PUA's lose their identity whatsoever. I haven't lost mine, I have the same ambitions and interests I did before I became aware of this scene. I still listen to the same music, still have the same hobbies, enjoy the same things I always did and have the same ambitions. I actually consider it vaguely insulting that this is all there is to my life as thats a pile of crap. This is a form of self betterment. Perhaps people who do body building aren't being their natural selves because they try and enhance their body physically, perhaps a fat guy stops being himself when he decides to get into shape, a person who learns to play a musical instrument doesn't have any talent so its not himself to play an instrument. These are exercises which enhance out life and give us hobbies or help improve our standard of living. PUA is no different.
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The second immoral act is disrespecting yourself. If you don't believe you can be with a girl by being yourself then you are in-need of inner game. You will never be stable in a long term relationship. To be in a long term relationship you have to be yourself. You can't not use a spice to get an exotic treat and then expect her to stay around.
Using spices to get exotic treats creates a new problem for many PUA's -- a hard time keeping girls. Because they are unable to be themselfs they lose guidance after the routines runs out. Using a routine to get with a girl will not provide a steady relationship, unless you are the routine. If the routine becomes a part of who you are, and the women understands it's apart of your personality -- I can see how she will accept you, but it is very dangerous because there is a fine line between incorporating a routine into your life, and taking a spice off the self for a one time use.
I don't have the answers yet. I feel confident I will. I still need to feel loved by a woman because my mother was irrational, and unstable, although I am O.K. with being rejected by a girl. Jill wants to be my friend, but she doesn't see me as a boyfriend. O.K.
I am O.K. with rejection because I respect her decision. I know I could learn these routines and sleep with her. Hell, all I have to do is pressure her and she will put out. I don't want to pressure her. I want the girl to decide to be with me because I am congruent with who I am. I don't act different around her than I do with my friends. I am who I am and I don't need a women to accept me inorder to believe I am a good person.
Sure! Some of you guys have been yourselfs your whole life, and have failed with women. Failure should be a learned experience. Grow into a better person, both with women and friends. If you focus on getting better with women, you will be on a road to a dead end. Focus on improving your life and being more positive. Self-help -- NOT PUA.
PUA is a form of self help anyway as far as I can see so thanks for the advice, we're doing that anyway.
Anyway going to the beginning of this point, I find it amusing how you speak out against us yet use PUA terminology to try and discredit our point. If I were you I'd avoid doing that!
Irony anyone? You talk about routines yet all PUA's who's books I've read or listened to or whatever say this is a starting point, really you should try and go beyond that. You just need to develop your natural wits.
Also I feel this is part of me growing into a better person anyway. I don't bother with most self help anyway, I prefer to take my influences from philosophy but really most of my reading is not centred on PUA these days.
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It's O.K. if I am her friend and she makes out with another man. I am O.K. with trying to get her and failing. I am O.K. with being a friend and watching her fuck another guy because my sex drive is the only reason why I wanted her in the first place. I didn't know her. Besides that, if she didn't want me then she is blind. I don't want a blind girl. I want a girl who can see into the furture -- just like me.
If she doesn't understand about self-help then fuck her. How can I be with a girl who doesn't understand self-help. I can keep her as a friend, eventhough, I wanted her and "failed". She will be with other guys, and it will be reminded of one of these two things: that "I am not good enough" or "I am so much better off looking for a girl who is right for me". ME-for-ME
I have to remove all the PUA, so I can be confident in who I am again. I can't always be calculating which spice to use in all my situations. I just have to relax.
Isn't the first point of being just driven by lust immoral according to your standards? You only wanted her 'cause of your sex drive. You have just undermined your own argument by being a hypocrite.
Frankly as has been said repeatedly and after reading your last post, GET HELP! You are obviously not confident in who you are:
"and it will be reminded of one of these two things: that "I am not good enough" or "I am so much better off looking for a girl who is right for me"."
First quote is an issue. Also I doubt any of us dispute the second.
CHAT
