I'm at a cross roads.

I have friends how are absolutely forceful with women and they get the job done. To me it seems sleazy! And if I describe there behaviour to a girl they would consider it sleazy.

But why is being a sleazy guy deemed a bad thing? From my understanding all your are doing is being forward with your sexual intent.

Why isn't being a nice guy a bad thing. you come across as a low sexual energy guy and women don't want that?

DECODE THIS?

What you call "sleaze" is actually "sexual confidence".

Those men know what they want from the woman and go after it. They don't worry about what people (like yourself) are thinking of them and they achieve their aims.

Don't think for others, think for yourself.

Be bold with your intent. It'll never be a bad thing when it comes to most women.

_________________
" You're born alone and you die alone and this world just drops a bunch of rules on top of you to make you forget those facts. But I never forget. I'm living like there's no tomorrow, because there isn't one. "

I don't know. To me, there is sexual confidence and then sexual agression. Why throw the nice guy completely out? I find it quite possible to integrate both. For example, don't "force" the girl but "guide" them. A good conversationalist with a lot of confidence can convey their intentions without being barbaric about it. Personally, i wouldn't completely abandon the nice guy thing mate! Learn to integrate!

Bear

Let's focus on you. Okay?

No one's throwing the Nice Guy thing out, but Nice Guy alone will not get you anywhere with the women except offers to accompany them on shopping trips where you'll hold their bags.

The "Nice Guy with an Edge" is the personality which is amongst the best pick up stereotypes. You can have the traits of the classic gentleman but at the same time have a dark side to yourself. That's the image when give out in the right way, gets women attracted in droves.

_________________
" You're born alone and you die alone and this world just drops a bunch of rules on top of you to make you forget those facts. But I never forget. I'm living like there's no tomorrow, because there isn't one. "

Sooner or later you gotta throw in the sexuality.

The reason you see those guys as sleazy and the reasons the women you ask ALSO see those guys as sleazy is because they don't just throw in their 'sleaziness' whenever it pleases them. They got good calibration which tells them when it's appropriate to act a certain way and when the door is open for them to get away with certain sexual moves.



The nice guy can work equally well, you don't have to be an ass. But the nice guy also has to learn that showing interest NEEDS to be done. Moves NEED to be made.

Most nice guys don't get laid because they are -just- nice and they don't move the interaction forward. They stay at the 'being nice' level and don't proceed from there.

If you're a nice guy that can actually make a move on a girl - you will get laid equally much as the badboys.

I agree with you both, the ability to move forward is key. My comments were based more on the description of "agression". It goes without saying that to close at some point you need to move conversation in that direction. I just feel there is a point where it ideally coems in. You may pick-up by throwing sexuality out early, but the finese to me is in the progression to closing.

I love the stereotype of "nice-guy with an edge". Agree, its as successful as i've ever seen

lol its my nick name and silver lettering on the back of my 350z reads "sleazy" just saw the sleaze word in the topic and laughed.